How to resolve climbing onto and attacking a larger creature?


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

You've seen it a million times in movies and on TV, the hero jumps onto the gigantic creatures back and attacks the creature from a position that the creature can't reach with its own limbs.

How do you use do this in a Pathfinder game?

It's kind of like grapple, but you can't grapple creatures more than one size category larger than yourself. In fact the size discrepancy is a benefit for the little guy, as he's so small and can maneuver in such a way to get out of reach of the creature. So the normal rules and modifiers for CMB/CMD don't quite fit.


As a houserule, i'd probably rule climb check to reach its back and balance or climb check to stay there and attack. The DC would probably be the CMD of the creature.

I'd also rule that this creates cover for the climber(prob. -4 or -8 depending on the creature - most likely -4).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

New Manoeuvre
Climbing Titans
There are times when PCs will wish to scale one of the gigantic beasts they seek to slay. Unable to pin the great beasts they are like ants crawling upon larger creatures.

Target: Any creature 2 or more size categories larger than the attacker.
Action: Move
Check: Provoke an attack of opportunity, after which it's a Climb check vs CMD.
Result: If successful the PC may attack their target's Flat-Footed AC. You are considered flat-footed for so long as you remain mounted on the titan. It requires a move-action to remain mounted on a titan.
Note: This means Rogues do gain the benefit of sneak-attack against the climbed creature.

Each round the PC must make a Climb, Balance or Ride (whichever is worse) check vs the creature's CMD to stay mounted on the creature.

New Feat:

The following should be added to the Fighter Bonus feat list:

Titan Rider
You are a master of taking any opportunity to climb a titan to reach its weak points.
Prerequisites: Acrobatics, Climb or Ride 1 rank.
Benefit: You no longer provoke an attack of opportunity to use the Climb the Titan manoeuver and gain a +4 bonus on this check.

Improved Titan Rider
You are a tenacious scaler of titans, and you refuse to release your grip when lesser folks would.
Prerequisites: Titan Rider, Acrobatics, Climb or Ride 3 ranks
Benefit: You may use the best of your Acrobatics, Climb or Ride skill bonuses to remain mounted on a creature two or more sizes larger than you. Furthermore you are no longer considered flat-footed while mounted on a titan.

Titan Slayer
You are a master of finding the weakest points of large monsters when you climb them.
Prerequisites: Titan Rider
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to hit with any attacks made while on the back of a titan, you also gain an additional 1d6 precision damage whenever you strike a Titan you are mounted on.

Liberty's Edge

If you'd like a rule from 3.5, there was a feat for 'climbing' onto bigger opponents... 'Giantbane' from complete warrior (p111):
GIANTBANE:

GIANTBANE (TACTICAL)

Spoiler:

You are trained in fi ghting foes larger than you are.
Prerequisites: Medium or smaller size, Tumble 5 ranks, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: The Giantbane feat enables the use of three tactical maneuvers.
Duck Underneath: To use this maneuver, you must have taken a total defense action, then have been attacked by a foe at least two size categories larger than you. You gain a +4 dodge bonus to your Armor Class, which stacks with the bonus for total defense. If that foe misses you, on your next turn, as a free action, you may make a DC 15 Tumble check. If the check succeeds, you move immediately to any unoccupied square on the opposite side of the foe (having successsuccessfully ducked underneath your foe). If there is no unoccupied square on the opposite side of the foe or you fail the Tumble check, you remain in the square you are in and have failed to duck underneath your foe.
Death from Below: To use this maneuver, you must have successfully used the duck underneath maneuver. You may make an immediate single attack against the foe you ducked underneath. That foe is treated as fl at-footed, and you gain a +4 bonus on your attack roll.
Climb Aboard: To use this maneuver, you must move adjacent to a foe at least two size categories larger than you. In the following round, you may make a DC 10 Climb check as a free action to clamber onto the creature’s back or limbs (you move into one of the squares the creature occupies). The creature you’re standing on takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls against you, because it can strike at you only awkwardly. If the creature moves during its action, you move along with it. The creature can try to shake you off by making a grapple check opposed by your Climb check. If the creature succeeds, you wind up in a random adjacent square.
Special: A fighter may select Giantbane as one of his fighter bonus feats.


Mok wrote:
It's kind of like grapple, but you can't grapple creatures more than one size category larger than yourself.

Note that I can't find this rule in the PFRPG core book. You can't trip someone larger than you, but there's no size restriction on grapple that I can find.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

hogarth wrote:
Mok wrote:
It's kind of like grapple, but you can't grapple creatures more than one size category larger than yourself.
Note that I can't find this rule in the PFRPG core book. You can't trip someone larger than you, but there's no size restriction on grapple that I can find.

There used to be in 3.5. I'm pretty sure that's one of the limitations that Pathfinder removed.

Note: do a search - there was an extensive discussion about this very topic a few weeks ago.


How about:
Climbing onto creatures.
You can climb onto a creature that is two or more size categories larger than you, or one size category larger than you if the creature's shape lends itself to riding (subject to GM's discretion).

1st round: Climb check check as a standard action (provokes AoO). DC = CMD of creature. You can do it with only one hand free, but at a -5 penalty.

2nd and subsequent rounds: Ride Check as a non action DC = 20 + Str modifier + Dex modifier of creature to Stay in Saddle. You take a -5 penalty on the check if you do not use at least one hand to hold on.

I get the 20 base from: Stay in Saddle DC 5, -5 penalty for attempting to ride a creature ill suited as a mount, the -5 penalty to Ride checks riding bareback, and I threw in another -5 penalty for "riding an unwilling creature."

"Ridden" condition: A ridden creature loses its Dex bonus to AC vs. the opponent riding it. A ridden creature also suffers the soft cover penalties (-4 to hit) vs. any creature riding it. A creature doing the riding loses it Dex bonus to AC vs. all attacks except for the ones from the ridden creature.

There should be some mechanic for the creature to throw you off.

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