Force Shield Ring and 2WFing

[Stephen Ede]

When 2WF with a Shield a Heavy Shield counts as a 1 handed weapon.

Ring of Force Shield generates a shield sized wall of force that can be weilded as it were a Heavy Shield, but has no armour check penalty and is weightless and encumberance free.

Question: What 2WF penalties apply when using a Force Shield and standard 1hd Weapon with 2WF?

Stephen E

[riatin]

My first inclination is that you couldn't use it as a weapon due to the weightlessness of the wall of force, the mass of the shield is what would give it the damaging potential. If pressed though, I'd probably allow it to be treated as a light weapon and do simply off-hand strength modifier damage on a successful hit. Put differently, for offense a dagger would be better suited to attack with than a feather.

[0gre]

riatin wrote:

My first inclination is that you couldn't use it as a weapon due to the weightlessness of the wall of force, the mass of the shield is what would give it the damaging potential. If pressed though, I'd probably allow it to be treated as a light weapon and do simply off-hand strength modifier damage on a successful hit. Put differently, for offense a dagger would be better suited to attack with than a feather.

I pretty much agree with riatin. There is really nothing horrible about using it to shield bash but it feels wonky. I would suggest just hold a dagger then use his free action to bring the shield down then up at the end of his turn.

[Stephen Ede]

Yes, Shields aren't great weapons, but with Shield Slam you can get a free Bullrush.

Keep in mind the feather/dagger argument that it isn't the mass of a weapon that determines the damage but the hardness and strenth of edge, combined with the force provided by the wielder.
A feather of pure force would indeed be a viable weapon.
A shield is unlikely to bend or flex so will be perfectly viable as an attack weapon.

Stephen E

[Slime]

0gre wrote:

... I would suggest just hold a dagger then use his free action to bring the shield down then up at the end of his turn.

But you couldn't take an AoO with the dagger since free actions aren't available out of your turn.

Question: Does (should?) one (proficient with shield as weapons) threaten with a force shield?

[Magicdealer]

Well, according to pg 481 the ring of force shield is wielded as if it were a heavy shield.

So in all ways, including twf, I'd use the same modifiers as a heavy shield with only the armor check penalty and arcane spell failure altered.

[anthony Valente]

Stephen Ede wrote:

When 2WF with a Shield a Heavy Shield counts as a 1 handed weapon.

Ring of Force Shield generates a shield sized wall of force that can be weilded as it were a Heavy Shield, but has no armour check penalty and is weightless and encumberance free.

Question: What 2WF penalties apply when using a Force Shield and standard 1hd Weapon with 2WF?

Stephen E

I would say they simply apply normally. The Ring of Force Shield has its own benefits and drawbacks. I know you're approaching it from the angle that it's weightless and encumbrance free, but it's still a big surface… kinda like fighting with a big sheet of cardboard strapped to your arm vs. a smaller sheet.

I'd rather see introducing a feat to lower the penalty, much like Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting in 3.5 to get what (I think) you're trying to achieve.

[Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus]

Magicdealer wrote:

Well, according to pg 481 the ring of force shield is wielded as if it were a heavy shield.

So in all ways, including twf, I'd use the same modifiers as a heavy shield with only the armor check penalty and arcane spell failure altered.

+1 RAW and RAI

However wonky it is.

P.S. This is a MAGIC item anyway.