Elementals


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Can someone explain why elementals have fewer hit dice in the Pathfinder SRD? For example, a CR 7 water elemental (Huge) has 95 hps (10d10+40). In the 3.5 SRD, they have 152 hps, 16d8+80 (152 hp). They also seem to have lost 2 points of constitution in the conversion. With the Pathfinder characters being beefed up (over standard 3.5 characters), does it make sense to lower the hit dice yet award the same experience points?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That's because the Elementals were too strong for their CR in 3.5. Similar problem as with Dragons. Elementals were a no-brainer choice for summon spells, for example.


Agreed. In 3.5 I've seen elementals with CRs several levels lower than a PC kill a PC outright.


Please note that elementals did get a boost to their HD/BAB too.

Before they were 3/4 BAB d8 hit dice, now they are d10 full bab.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

When we converted the monsters, we used the "average results per CR" table to guide the design. Basically, we were able to draw upon a decade or so of experience with monsters, how they work, and the CR system to recalibrate ALL of the monsters so that they were better fits for their CR scores. We decided to keep as many CR scores unchanged as possible since that means that a Pathfinder version of a monster occupies the same niche of danger and power that it did in 3.5, but since we had more experience with the system than anyone did when the rules were first written, we were able to recalibrate all of the monsters.

It's worth noting that this wasn't the first time such a recalibration happened. Just compare the stats for demons and devils from the 3.0 Monster Manual to the 3.5 Monster Manual! :-)


James Jacobs wrote:

When we converted the monsters, we used the "average results per CR" table to guide the design. Basically, we were able to draw upon a decade or so of experience with monsters, how they work, and the CR system to recalibrate ALL of the monsters so that they were better fits for their CR scores. We decided to keep as many CR scores unchanged as possible since that means that a Pathfinder version of a monster occupies the same niche of danger and power that it did in 3.5, but since we had more experience with the system than anyone did when the rules were first written, we were able to recalibrate all of the monsters.

It's worth noting that this wasn't the first time such a recalibration happened. Just compare the stats for demons and devils from the 3.0 Monster Manual to the 3.5 Monster Manual! :-)

Well you guys have really busted me with the Raksasha!

I've been converting the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP to PF, and its been pretty easy thus far.

Until I got to the last part of Escape from Korvosa. Rak's have been bumped up considerably but kept the same CR (which was a necessary change), but in the module they've been used as a CR 8, which makes sense. So I've been stuck trying to work out a CR 8 pathfinder Raksasha. Not easy!

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