Alright guys here's the deal, I'm working on the big bad evil guy for the end encounter for my campain, and i'm not entirely sure what to do. Now so far the characters are only lvl 5, and they have just been kicking around a small local town, helping built it, doing odd jobs, and what not. I have an idea for a plot but I can't seem to come up with that fianlly epic encounter that would challenge a bunch of lvl 20 toons (everyone wants to get that capstone talent) any thoughts? I was thinking an Abysal Sorcerer who specialized in summoning. But I'm also thinking of a 'lich king' style character. So I'm asking for some help on this one guys, any thoughts?
You have plenty of time to plan.
I like to use sorcerers as BBEGs rather than Wizards. Because Wizards are by definition brilliant and therefore if the evil wizard BBEG is actually trying he should be prepared for everything. Read Watchmen for an example of how an actually intelligent adversary deals with heroes.
Sorcerers, on the other hand, can be powerful without being smart (there are plenty of smart sorcerers out there I know) so you can let them have holes in thier plans. If he's an abyssal Sorcerer he better focus on summoning because high level abyssal Sorcerers are so fricken' good at it.
As for Lich Kings, well, there's a reason they're cliche- there reliable. It's hard to go wrong with a Lich- but to be new remember there are other monsterous races and templates for BBEGs: Dragons, half-dragons, halffiends half-CELESTIALS, actual fiends or celestials, Ghouls, Vampires and my favorite, Hags.
Alright guys here's the deal, I'm working on the big bad evil guy for the end encounter for my campain, and i'm not entirely sure what to do. Now so far the characters are only lvl 5, and they have just been kicking around a small local town, helping built it, doing odd jobs, and what not. I have an idea for a plot but I can't seem to come up with that fianlly epic encounter that would challenge a bunch of lvl 20 toons (everyone wants to get that capstone talent) any thoughts? I was thinking an Abysal Sorcerer who specialized in summoning. But I'm also thinking of a 'lich king' style character. So I'm asking for some help on this one guys, any thoughts?
A corrupted solar?
Alright guys here's the deal, I'm working on the big bad evil guy for the end encounter for my campain, and i'm not entirely sure what to do. Now so far the characters are only lvl 5, and they have just been kicking around a small local town, helping built it, doing odd jobs, and what not. I have an idea for a plot but I can't seem to come up with that fianlly epic encounter that would challenge a bunch of lvl 20 toons (everyone wants to get that capstone talent) any thoughts? I was thinking an Abysal Sorcerer who specialized in summoning. But I'm also thinking of a 'lich king' style character. So I'm asking for some help on this one guys, any thoughts?
Yer gonna wait till they hit 20 before they get a BBEG...yer a right evil bastard you are...I LIKE IT !!!!
Seriously though...by 20th lvl I have found that sometimes the G in BBEG needs to stand for GROUP rather than Guy...mostly because it is sometimes better to make it a "Corporation" (i.e religion, guild, noble family) than a single kill him and yer done kinda fight.
Besides...this way you can call them the "Umbrella Corp." and get a neat Video game reference in for laughs...after all...laughs is what it is all about.
I support the idea of having a bbeg every couple levels, every five or so. The rush of killing a major villan every so often is great for the players and making them is fun too. and if the early Big Bad Evil Guys are working for the Biggest Worst Evilist Guy...all the better. Let's use the rela term for that system though...bosses.
Let us not forget a few other villainous concepts.
The Mummy: With the use of the True Mummy template and any combination of spell casting of your choice. A few additional, obscure templates also make this BBEG shine. This villain scales over the course of the campaign at 3 or 4 over APL - since until the time that the characters figure out where the sacred jars are, let alone that they even exist and are the BBEGs source of nigh-indestructibility, they simply cannot get rid of the BBEG permanently. A few minor tweaks to the template for PRPG rules makes this a very memorable antagonist indeed.
The Siblings: A pair of dragon siblings with the ability to assume an alternate form. Most of their time away from truly and disgustingly well-guarded lair(s) they are 'playing human', perhaps working as assassins. They could also occasionally pretend to be beggars at the city gates when they note Your Heroes strolling into town laden with loot and magic. For most of the campaign it should not ever become clear that they are dragons until the very end, although subtle hints could be scattered throughout flavor text, handouts and props through the campaign up until then.
The Gawds b.k.a. The Gawds Hate You: Courtesy of a sizable portion of ancient Greek mythology, at a minimum. "Release the Kraken!" takes on a whole new meaning of pain when the Big Kahuna in the Sky gives the command. Alternative versions of this basic theme can be based as per Minstrel's above post.
Your Daddy and/or Mommy Were Adventurers Too: If any of the characters are descendants of previous player characters, legitimate or otherwise, that's a big fat hook for a "BBEG from the past" to resurface. Your PCs would be unaware of this fact, especially those that were raised as orphans. Harry Potter, King Arthur and too many player characters to count honor this tradition.
All I can think of from the top of my head.
I support the idea of having a bbeg every couple levels, every five or so. The rush of killing a major villan every so often is great for the players and making them is fun too. and if the early Big Bad Evil Guys are working for the Biggest Worst Evilist Guy...all the better. Let's use the rela term for that system though...bosses.
Thats why i was leaning towards the lich bbeg, i can use vampire/spawns, Skeletal Champs, Death Knights, Ghosts, The Mummy etc.
Not OGL but...
MIND...
FLAYERS!
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The Tarrasque!
The rest of the time they've been chasing down a group prophesising the end of the world. Unfortuanately the leaders of said group didn't want to leave things to chance so they invoked some awsome power and awaoke the Tarrasque.
You just need to incorporates some form of machination that the players can get hold of to put a stop to said beasty. Perhaps they need to collect a series of relics needed to power an infernal machine that when turned upon the creature returns it to its dormant state and destroys the infernal machine in the process.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Come on, the tarrasque is a weapon, not a villian. it can't give evil speaches
Come on, the tarrasque is a weapon, not a villian. it can't give evil speaches
Sure it can. When the party finally encounters the thing, just have a wave file of the T-Rex roar from Jurassic Park on a computer with good speakers, turn them up to eleven, and let 'er rip. It's simple, effective, and to the point. Then let the mayhem begin.
One thing to keep in mind is that D&D is all about cause and effect.
Remember that evil sorcerer they killed a few levels back? Well, his brother could be the king of those lands and order a bounty on the player's heads. Even if he is a good king.
The sorcerer may have had a brother/sister who is actually a paladin and believes the party to be evil.
Anti-paladin anyone?
There are hundreds of options.
Psionicist 20, Defiler 20, Ring any bells? ;)
Psionicist 20, Defiler 20, Ring any bells? ;)
I'll see your Athasian Sorcerer King and raise you Kyuss, crazy demipower.
Lol, don't get hung up on the level 20 villain. That's someone the players shouldn't even be aware of, yet.
For example: in my game I have a cabal of various evil types working towards the same goal, but in different ways. Each is trying to bring back an entity so evil and so powerful that the gods erased him from existence! Only one of his original followers remembers him, yet can't recall his name. He has minions all trying to help him remember by re-enacting some of the horrible things his master did. If this master villain returns then all of his cohorts would rejoin him in undoing the gods influence over the world. Leaving it free for him to take over!
I know all this, and the players have this information as well, but my big bad isn't statted up yet. He doesn't need to be! It only matters if the players can face. In your case I'd say it depends on what evil plot you want your players to thwart and who or what could pull that off.
Good luck!
Psionicist 20, Defiler 20, Ring any bells? ;)I'll see your Athasian Sorcerer King and raise you Kyuss, crazy demipower.
I'd sooner GM an Athasian dragon-king than Kyuss. Much more fun!
Well, what about converting a certain runelord for your own purposes, another good BBEG ;)
Evil King ftw?
Complete with Evil Nation of Followers that love him/her...
Nothing like antagonising several hundreds of thousands of people to make the future lives of the PC's complicated...
Yes yes, you can kill X 1st level farmers/turn, but can you do it for 7 days straight? :D
..basically, you build an BBG who's strength lies in their support/infuence. Less Big Dragon and more Hitler.
Now, to make things really tricky, you make it a Good King Complete with Good Nation of Followers that love him or her..
..they just happen to be doing *something* that the PC's disagree with/conflicts with the aims and goals of the party.
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Lots of good idea's, but i'm especially fond of the corrupted solar
How about a paladin? Still a paladin, but misguided. Then some really good RP will ensue for sure.
Fergie here:
Everyone has come up with great ideas, but you don't want any single creature to be the BBEG. Single creatures are doomed to go down in anti-climactic battles.
I would recommend making the final BBE a set of triplets, a family, or some other group. It gives you a lot more options, and decreases the chance a few rolls of the dice will cause a TPK, or the BBEG going out like a chump in round 1.
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One thing that evil people can be relied upon to do is fight amongst themselves. I ran a great campaign a few years back with three BBEGs all working against each other, all trying to manipulate the PCs to do their own bidding. A wizard, a cleric, and a psion. And at the end when they had finally all three been defeated (the wizard had actually been killed by the psion once the PCs compromised his defenses), they had to face off against their former ally, a fallen paladin who had been constantly manipulated by all three villains and now was possessed by the soul of an ancient evil warrior and holding an artifact that gave him the powers of a demigod...
One thing that evil people can be relied upon to do is fight amongst themselves.
This also allows you an out, in case you 'accidentally' overpower the group. One of the others in the cabal has switched a crucial component, bought a key underling, etc. I, unfortunately, get 'hot' with my dice upon occasion and verge on TPK. By having a veiled deux ex machina moment, I spare the TPK and can drop a heavy hint ("Curse you, Garitum!I thought you were my friend!).
Orcus is always great. Undead AND demons. Two great tastes that go great together!
All kinds of nasty underlings and such.
Lots of good idea's, but i'm especially fond of the corrupted solar
One of the best BBG's we faced was a normal Solar (with some character levels if i recall - group was tough as nails.)
The idea was that the Solar had given the land 100 years to change their ways -- and wasn't satisified with the results when it finally returned.
So aye, judgement day -- the land was essentially good but.. not Lawful Good enough for the Solar...
...without wishing to get into an alignment discussion, it was all about the ideal of Lawful Good versus the reality, with the Solar having the last, gloriously radiating word.
Twas awesome, yo o-O
Smite make right!
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The BBEG is actually an Adventuring Party, namely the PCs themselves from the future come back to stop an even more evil plan, but in the process they must break some eggs and guide themselves along a chosen route.
Make them all liches too... and demi-gods... with the half-celestial template as well just to mess with them... but they are illusions powered by an even cooler bad guy...
A leveled Balor - with maybe 12 levels in Sorceror (pick a non-demonic complementary bloodline) - who is shape-changed to resemble something like a teddy bear. (I'm thinking the 'Critter Christmas' bear from South Park). Have him make evil speeches in a dumb cartoon voice.
Let the characters laugh it up until the moment he draws his improbably over-sized flaming sword and whip.
I have an idea for a plot but I can't seem to come up with that fianlly epic encounter that would challenge a bunch of lvl 20 toons (everyone wants to get that capstone talent) any thoughts?
I'd prefer to throw everything in the pot possible in the final encounter. This includes custom artifacts, crazy environments like volcanoes/space/exotic planes (or even plane shifting mid combat), lesser bad guys coming from seemingly nowhere, multiple phases (including 1 or 2 mini-puzzles of some sort), and a final damage race.
The real way to go here is the dragon. You get a ton of magic capability shackled up with huge survivability. Especially if the party is "prepared" for the final fight (protection from energy, etc.) -- don't worry about hammering them. Don't throw everything all at once -- break it up into manageable parts. Keep the big bad guy elusive until the party has used a considerable amount of its resources. I would treat the final encounter as an entire session or two of content.
First of all, it is NOT too early to introuduce your BBEG. Give the characters glances of him, letters, maybe even a present or two (whether he is so confident as to send actual presents or they are trapped). To really creep the players out, make them feel that they are ALWAYS under his surveillance. They leave, he strikes, they go to thwart him, cue epic multi-stage fight with puzzles, damage racesm minion hordes, RPing, the works.
Ok I think I came up with a solution, combine both of my idea's, and add a corrupted solar in there as a body gaurd.
The BBEG will be a fighter 1/Sorcerer 17/Spellsword 3 Lich with the Abyssal Bloodline.
I plan to give him Demon Armor, with the arcane armor feats and 3 levels of spellsword will decrease the acrane armor failure to 0%. Now he's also going to have the wand of orcus (Heavy Mace, or Greatclub? the BoVD says both). And I want to give him some kind of item with the ability to command undead as a cleric, thoughts?