I'm writing up a conjurer (specialist wizard) and trying to think of feats/ACF that would be handy. I want to be more of a strategist than a summoner, so not that keen on Augment Summoning etc. I've checked out TreantMonk's guide, pretty good, just wondering if there's anything else that can give my wiz a bit of a kick.
I'm thinking Elf Conjurer
Feats: Not sure yet, maybe Dodge, Toughness, Great Fortitude etc. Basically defensive, but not really happy with that. I'd prefer better/more spells.
Any ideas?
btw, only Core PF and 'Complete' 3.5 books allowed.
and no summoner :(
I was gonna take the focused specialist feat from CMage, and as my forbidden schools have divination; enchantment; necromancy. maybe evocation instead of divination...not sure yet.
yeh, that's why i was considering evo as a banned school
mmm not sure, if i was gonna PrC, that would be the one that swayed me.
btw, i've changed my mind about elf, playing a tiefling now, the bonus to overcoming SR is pretty irrelevant with conjuration, methinks.
I wouldn't be so quick to write off the bonus to SR. Yeah, conjuration as a whole tends to avoid the spell resistance bracket, but it won't be the only school you're casting from. Still, off the top of my head I can't remember what the bonuses for tiefling are, so it could be a good choice. Also remember that conjurers are one of the only forms of wizard that can succeed with a relatively low intelligence.
basically they get +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha (instead of Con).
Resistance 5 vs. cold, electicity, and fire
Darkness 1/day
...and they're Outsiders (Alter Self and such)
I would think the PHB2 would be allowed since its probably closest to PF, but whatever.
If you're not going to be a big-time summoner, I'd suggest keeping evocation (if only for Wall of Force later!).
Weapon Focus (ray) wouldn't be a bad idea for your acid arrows (plus acid splash at low level) and miscellaneous, though the 2nd most common ray school is necro I think. Point Blank Shot an option/alternative - 1d3+1 acid splashes can be useful.
Extend spell is always good, and good for conjurations (and you still have abjurations which it's best for). It's wicked on acid arrow if you start from long range.
So a Conjurer is best at two things basically:
Battlefield Control - Modifying the combat area by removing, adding, or modifying obstacles and creatures to create more favorable conditions for the party. Note that this includes summoning.
Teleportation - For travel, or for battlefield control.
I can certainly understand the desire not to be a summoning specialist; sometimes it gets to be a chore having to look up different monsters and figure their stats and play them out every round. So sure, if you don't want to do that, then Augment Summoning will be a costly enterprise, as SF (Conjuration) while useful doesn't apply to a lot of the spells a conjurer would use. Don't overlook the use of a well placed summons though--sometimes a few earth elementals are a better wall than a wall of stone.
Not sure I'd worry about Dodge or Great Fort. +1 AC probably won't make much difference for a wizard, you're primary defense will be not being in the line of attacks and you're secondary defense will be miss chances from things like mirror image, invisibility, displacement, etc. Its just really tough to get AC up to a viable level with a wizard, and theres lots of other things that will give more bang for the buck for your feat slots than dodge. Same for Great Fort, especially with an Elf, as your Fort save will bite no matter what you do. Theres just too many good feats to have; better to spend feat slots on choices that make your strengths much stronger rather than your weaknesses slightly less weak.
If the Complete books are available, heres some feat suggestions:
Arcane Mastery (CArc) - take 10 on caster level checks. This now includes concentration checks, so it helps a bunch with casting defensively or in a grapple. (Its unclear whether this allows taking 10 when distracted or in danger. If so, then the utility of this feat is greatly lessened, as almost all caster level checks are done in combat. If it can be done anytime though, this would be a must have.)
Craft Contingent Spell (CArc) - better than the contingency spell itself. Very nice for a stategic wizard who is always prepared.
Chain Spell (CArc) - while not a lot of spells actually can be used with this feat, it can be used to great effect, both offensively against multiple targets (Chain blindness/deafness for instance) or to give multiple buffs to the party (Chain Keen edge, for isntance). Depends on the spells you plan on casting though.
Sculpt Spell (CArc) - this one is awesome. Extremely versatile for the cost of only one spell level, and you can choose how it affects the spell when you cast it. For some spells it is a ridiculous benefit. Something like Grease can be altered with this to substantially multiply the area of affect. Very very useful for battlefield control.
Sudden Widen (CArc) - Widen is a wonderful effect, its just that the normal cost is way too high to really be useful. This feat would let you widen one spell per day for free. Sculpt Spell is definitely better, but this one is pretty useful too.
Metamagic School Focus (CMage) - very very useful. Especially with the +1 level metamagic feats like Sculpt and Extend.
Rapid Spell (CDiv) - Best for use with summon spells in conjunctino with Metamagic School Focus, so that the summons can get out there the same round as casting. If your not summoning a lot though, this probably isn't worth it.
As for classes, Master Specialist isn't bad. I'm not sold on how it compares to a PF Conjuration Specialist wizard though, especially if you're not planning on doing a lot of summoning, as most of the Master Specialist conjuration abilities concern summons. I'll grant that the caster level boost is nice though. The 8th lvl ability of the PF Conjurer is just fantastic, not sure if its worth giving up for the Master Specialist abilities.
I'd consider the Abjurant Champion class though. As an elf you're already proficient with a Martial Weapon, so all you need is Combat Casting (good feat choice anyways in PF), a +5 BAB which a straight wizard would get at lvl 10, and the ability to cast a 1st lvl abjuration spell (no problem there.) The class is worth it just for the HD and BAB boost, and the other abilities are very nice as well. Auto-extended abjurations, a huge boost to the shield spell's AC bonus, and auto-quickened low level abjuration spells are just fantastic (quickened dispel magic!). Granted, this is down the road a bit, but its no real loss to get into and the benefits are great.
Other classes I'd consider would be Initiate of the Seven Fold veil (yeah I know you're not an abjurer but its a good class anyways) and if available, Archmage of course.
Are Complete spells available? What about the Spell Compendium? That opens up a lot of options if the extra spells are allowed.
If you're not going to be a big-time summoner, I'd suggest keeping evocation (if only for Wall of Force later!).
ISn't that what the Illusion school is for? Besides, I don't think spells from banned schools are themselves banned in Pathfinder.
And who needs rays? Complete Arcane gives you access to the Conjuration attack of Orbs
...and they're Outsiders (Alter Self and such)
while the stats look good, you might wanna reread the new alter self. It's
no longer based on your creature type, so obscurities like spellscales & aasimar don't carry the same weight.Something to consider.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
@Father Dale - Thanks for the suggestions! Especially the sudden metamagic feats. I'd rather focus on being a caster tho, so prob. not Abjurant Champion. Agreed about the 8th lvl ability for conjurers, very handy for getting out of jams. yeh, Spell Compendium's allowed, and freaking orsm! I'm leaning towards straight conjurer. I wasn't convinced by dodge etc. either, so i've gone with Augment Summoning; i'm not summoning EVERY fight, but enough to make it worth it, and besides +1 DC for conjuration spells is good anyway. And i'm taking evocation, the 'wall' spells are great for battlefield control. Prohibited schools are: Divination; Enchantment; and Necromancy.
@Sean FitzSimon - Really??? Damn, i missed that. Oh well, Darkvision, Resistances, and Darkness 1/day, as well as not having -2 to Con is pretty good.
Glad I could help.
Don't knock the Abjurant Champion as being a non-caster. It does get full spellcasting in addition to its other benefits. The reason I suggest it is a) its very easy to get into starting at 11th level with no spellcasting loss, and b) it provides very nice benefits. Granted, its easier for an elf who satisfies the martial weapon proficiency for free than for most other races such as tiefling, but still its not a bad choice.
Consider a 15th lvl elf straight conjurer vs an elf conjurer 10/abjurant champion. The AbChamp has spent a feat on Combat Casting, which the straight conjurer has probably done as well. Having a single abjuration spell of 1st level is no problem for either to get as well. They have equal spellcasting and saving throws (assuming AbChamp gets modified to coincide with PRC saving throw progressions in PF.) The AbChamp has +3 BAB, 10 more hitpoints on average, all his abjuration spells are automatically extended for free, his shield spell grants a +9 AC bonus vs a +4, his lvl 1-3 abjuration spells are auto-quickend (and theres a lot of good low level abjuration spells), and he has the ability to drop a spell to gain a bonus to various things. The straight conjurer has one extra wizard feat, a better acid splash dart (1d6+7 vs 1d6+5), 2 more rounds added to the duration of his summon spells, and 450 feet per day for his dimensional step as opposed to 300 feet per day. So, I think its pretty clear which one is better off, and only for the cost of a feat thats a good feat choice anyways. (Probably worth it to spend on a martial weapon prof. anyways to get into it.)
In any event, for the 10th lvl conjurer, its a good time to get a PRC, since the benefits of more wizard levels is probably outweighed by the benefits a PRC can offer. Master Specialist isn't bad once you've got the dimensional step ability going. Initiate of the Sevenfold veil is very strong, and fits with your battlefield control theme. And Archmage if its available is a great choice for any of these builds.
Yeah you can't go wrong with Augment Summoning. Never seen anybody regret taking that feat. Treantmonk's advice on feats is solid as well (Combat Casting, Defensive Combat Training, Imp Initiative, Toughness, etc.) And a few metamagic and sudden metamagic feats will open up lots of possibilities with your spells.
Hey that's not bad actually. And i get martial weapon prof. for free as an outsider, i'll have a good look at it.
Hey that's not bad actually. And i get martial weapon prof. for free as an outsider, i'll have a good look at it.
You may want to look at that again. Paizo has stated that you only qualify for the martial weapon proficiency as an outsider if you have oursider HD. Aasimar and Tieflings do not qualify as they only have class hit dice, not creature HD.
Yeah, a tiefling doesn't get martial wep proficiency for free. Thats why elves have an easier time getting into AbChamp than other races do. Plus it kinda fits with the elvish 'bladedancer' type theme of mixing martial combat and magic.
Bow is a really good weapon to have access to as a low level wizard too. Usually you get stuck having to shoot a light xbow when you run out of spells. Longbow does just as much damage but doesn't require spending a move action to reload it.
Still, probably not a bad feat investment picking up Martial Wep Proficency in order to get the AbChamp goodies. I'd gladly trade a feat to have all my abjuration spells auto-extended.
Hey that's not bad actually. And i get martial weapon prof. for free as an outsider, i'll have a good look at it.You may want to look at that again. Paizo has stated that you only qualify for the martial weapon proficiency as an outsider if you have oursider HD. Aasimar and Tieflings do not qualify as they only have class hit dice, not creature HD.
uh...where? Can you link that pls? Under Outsider Type in the Beastiary it states the difference between Outsiders and Outsiders with the Native subtype for the purposes of resurrection etc, nothing about weapon prof's.
It also says in the Tiefling entry that they are defined by their class lvls, not racial hd.
Also, what about half-dragons, they get a breath weapon (albeit a weak one-1d6) even if they possess no racial hd. I'm pretty sure i read that if no racial hd are possessed they have at least one. Beastiary p. 313-314: "There are a number of monsters in this book that do
not possess racial Hit Dice. Such creatures are the best
options for player characters, but a few of them are so powerful that they count as having 1 class level, even without a racial Hit Die".
The battlefield control role for a conjurer is definitely a strong choice, even without summon monster spells. Note that the Conjuration school contains some of the staple SoD/SoS spells: grease, glitterdust, web, stinking cloud, black tentacles, cloudkill, etc. One of the benefits of Conjuration is that they don't all target the same save (unlike Enchantment and Illusion targeting Will, Evocation targeting Ref, and Necromancy targeting Fort; Transmutation also has a variety with SoD/SoS spells, but they are less numerous), giving you the opportunity to almost always target the opponents' worst save with your highest DC spells (assuming Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus); some, like the grapple check from black tentacles, don't even target a "save." Other Conjuration spells create a variety of control options: obscuring mist, fog cloud, sleet storm, solid fog, etc. to hinder non-AoE ranged attacks (you can't target what you can't see) and produce other effects, various walls to restrict your opponents' mobility, increased tactical and strategic mobility through dimension door, teleport, etc.
uh...where? Can you link that pls?
Sure thing.
Assimar/Tiefling into Eldritch Knight at 6th level thread link
Here is the relevant post by James:
Pathfinder tieflings and aasimars get weapon proficiencies based on their class; they have no racial Hit Dice, and thus don't gain the standard outsider proficiency with all weapons.
I'm confused
James Jacobs wrote:
Correct; a half-dragon with no racial HD would have a breath weapon that deals 1d6 points of damage.
Isn't breath weapon based off racial hd?
I'm confused
James Jacobs wrote:
Correct; a half-dragon with no racial HD would have a breath weapon that deals 1d6 points of damage.
Isn't breath weapon based off racial hd?
Apparently minimum 1d6
Apparently minimum 1d6
Therefore - ,minimum 1 HD, no?
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Apparently minimum 1d6Therefore - ,minimum 1 HD, no?
Nah, the critter could be a half-dragon kobold warrior 1, and have no racial HD at all. The 'minimum 1' thing doesn't mean that the half-dragon has to have a racial HD.
Similarly;
Summoner's Charm (Su): Whenever you cast a conjuration (summoning) spell, increase the duration by a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1).
does not mean that all Conjurors are automatically 2nd level to start, because they get a (minimum 1) to their one / two levels duration bonus.
Hey, Conjurors are on topic!
so where does it say minimum 1d6 breath weapon?
i don't mean to labour the point, but clarification is needed, methinks
I haven't read any of the above posts, but you should read this.
I also add the Teleportation School from the APG. I also use the pit spells.
My only suggestion above treantmonk's guide is that you should absolutely get at least Craft Wondrous Item. I don't understand at all why he doesn't like crafting feats: maybe a table variation thing?
Anyway, the feat saves you a tremendous amount of WBL which translates into a really significant power increase. It also makes the rest of your party love you.
I've never played or DMed for a spellcaster who regreted taking any of the magic crafting feats.
Or you can be an Ultimate Magus and be good at all the things...
Or you can be an Ultimate Magus and be good at all the things...
You mean... the terrible 3.5 PRC? :S