Duelist Weapons

[Goblich]

Help me with this.
Why OH WHY is a Duelist able to use class abilities with a trident and not an Aldori Dueling sword?
I understand some rules, like the whole light/1h piercing weapons for a Rapier or dagger fighter, but some things just make sense. Like a Duelist using a sword designed for dueling.

Other things, of course, dont make sense. Like fencing with a shortspear, pick, or trident.

[stringburka]

Goblich wrote:

Other things, of course, dont make sense. Like fencing with a shortspear, pick, or trident.

Of course fencing with a shortspear or trident makes sense. Youtube "spear fencing" and you'll get a lot of examples.

The other weapon I don't even know what it is, it isn't in core at least. Might it be an exotic weapon that is straight better than the rapier or some other fencing weapon?

[stringburka]

Found a reference to it. Finessable long sword? While it makes some sense, then there would be no need at all for the long sword as a duelist weapon. I think it's fair as it is.

[Disenchanter]

stringburka wrote:

Found a reference to it. Finessable long sword? While it makes some sense, then there would be no need at all for the long sword as a duelist weapon. I think it's fair as it is.

I'm probably missing your point, but a long sword isn't a "duelist weapon." Long sword is a slashing weapon, and duelist class abilities focus on piercing weapons.

[stringburka]

Disenchanter wrote:

stringburka wrote:

Found a reference to it. Finessable long sword? While it makes some sense, then there would be no need at all for the long sword as a duelist weapon. I think it's fair as it is.

I'm probably missing your point, but a long sword isn't a "duelist weapon." Long sword is a slashing weapon, and duelist class abilities focus on piercing weapons.

I know it isn't that much of a duelist weapon, but it's a weapon they're proficient with, and also the other weapon isn't core but an exotic weapon. That's why they don't have proficiency with it but with long sword. Anyway it doesn't matter THAT much either way I think. It's certainly not a balance issue, seeing as how the rapier is still better, so I'd probably allow it, but I understand why it isn't in the list RAW. I prefer when they keep core stuff without references to non-core stuff.

[Cartigan]

But they could add a rules caveat for something like that in the non-core rules along with it. Like "A Duelist may treat this weapon as a Duelist weapon" or whatever.

[Yucale]

As far as I can see, the Duelist prestige class is themed off fencing. Saber fencing is close to the basic foil techniques, alongside the epe and... I forgot the other. Foil again? So I don't have much problem with the whole "slashing" thing, though most fencing would be (in game terms) centered around "piercing" weapons. Though I can see why it says most Duelists are chaotic, fencing was originally invented as a sport so that people could practice swordplay in a non-fatal way. Rules and stuff, so if I did make a duelist I'd probably be Lawful. And fighter for the base class makes more sense. The Trident thing seems... off. In my opinion, duelists should get bonuses for using light blades. Also, seeing the discipline to learn the techniques I'd approve of high will bonuses for the prestige class. (they might get bonuses and stuff, just using my background experience of actual fencing here) Over all, I think they did a good job for the class. But certain attacks that took less time than standard wouldn't be amiss.

[Benicio Del Espada]

Cartigan wrote:

But they could add a rules caveat for something like that in the non-core rules along with it. Like "A Duelist may treat this weapon as a Duelist weapon" or whatever.

That makes sense to me, too. I'd allow a duelist to use it, if he really wanted to. The whole "Aldori dueling sword" thing suggests to my mind that it is an effective duelist weapon with the right training (a feat).

Duelist came from 3.5, with a few tweaks. In a Golarion-based game, you would think a dueling sword would be used by duelists. Denying it to the duelist class just doesn't seem "duel-y" to me...

[Sevus]

Yucale wrote:

As far as I can see, the Duelist prestige class is themed off fencing. Saber fencing is close to the basic foil techniques, alongside the epe and... I forgot the other. Foil again? So I don't have much problem with the whole "slashing" thing, though most fencing would be (in game terms) centered around "piercing" weapons. Though I can see why it says most Duelists are chaotic, fencing was originally invented as a sport so that people could practice swordplay in a non-fatal way. Rules and stuff, so if I did make a duelist I'd probably be Lawful. And fighter for the base class makes more sense. The Trident thing seems... off. In my opinion, duelists should get bonuses for using light blades. Also, seeing the discipline to learn the techniques I'd approve of high will bonuses for the prestige class. (they might get bonuses and stuff, just using my background experience of actual fencing here) Over all, I think they did a good job for the class. But certain attacks that took less time than standard wouldn't be amiss.

The fencing blades are foil, épée, and saber. I agree that spears/tridents seem to violate the spirit of the Duelist class, but I believe a convincing polearm Duelist could be made, since it's flavored after fencing, but is ultimately a finesse-fighting class.

My thoughts on the duelist are if you can apply Weapon Finesse to the weapon, you can use it for Duelist abilities. It seems to more fit the intent of the class in my opinion.

[DeathQuaker]

For the uninitiated, where does the Aldori Dueling Sword come from? Is it actually from PFRPG material?

I mean, I know it's from a Pathfinder adventure or companion or something. But did it possibly come out before PFRPG? That might be why it doesn't have rules compatible for a PF duelist. In which case it might be worth waiting until the PF Armory or whatever it's called comes out, as they may have updated rules for it.

If I'm totally off base, I apologize.

[Sniggevert]

DeathQuaker wrote:

For the uninitiated, where does the Aldori Dueling Sword come from? Is it actually from PFRPG material?

I mean, I know it's from a Pathfinder adventure or companion or something. But did it possibly come out before PFRPG? That might be why it doesn't have rules compatible for a PF duelist. In which case it might be worth waiting until the PF Armory or whatever it's called comes out, as they may have updated rules for it.

If I'm totally off base, I apologize.

The 3.5 version is in the Campaign setting. I 'think' it's coming back out in the Armory. If not, then I would really think it'd be a shoe in for the redo of the setting.

It's stats are the same as a longsword, but when you take an exotic weapon proficiency with it, you can use weapon finesse with it.