A Question on Glitterdust

[Kajal]

Hello there!
Does anyone have any insight as to how Glitterdust would work underwater?

Or for instance in the following situation...
A caster is upon a deck of a ship 20ft above the waterline.
His target is a water mephit whom has just the round before, dived
into the brine below. Using the concealment of the water it is going
to make a stealth check. The caster casts Glitterdust centered on the
square that he judges the creature to be in.
What happens now.
A. The spell behaves normally as written.
B. The spell covers everything, including the water in the
spell area, making a kind of golden solid in a golden soup.
C. Something in the middle of A. and B.????
D. other? ( Please explain in response )

Thank you for any insight on this, what seems to be the best 2nd level spell ever!!!

[TLO3]

I'd say it would catch the mephit but not the water itself. The glitterdust description says it covers everyone and everything in the area, but it seems obvious that it ignores the medium which it is cast in.

When cast normally it is not operating in a vacuum, yet you don't see the air become a thick fog of gold glitter.

Also, you can cast the spell on incorporeals so you can't say it doesn't affect gaseous objects.

[Kajal]

Ah thank you, that does seem to be the easiest answer... it's magic!
Although the spell does create something physical, a golden dust, originating in a cloud of particles. I think that is why SR does not apply. The medium not being of issue claim seems to only reflect the fact that the spell descriptor is written with air as a default and that the
"dust" would behave as dust and linger but a moment before it covers things as it settles.
Mind you, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I believe adjudication of spell effects should be short and sweet however, Glitterdust benefits from being exempt from spell resistance and I guess from what you say can effect non-corporeals as well! Seems very powerful for a second level spell.
Again thank you for taking the time to answer my question TLO3

[Maezer]

Ok. I would go with option A. Do whatever you normally do in regards to coating non-possesed items. Coating doors/walls/floors etc. Unless its very stagnat waters, its probably going to dispers rather quickly if its not to something other than water.

It strikes me as largely irrelevent however. A submerged creature has total cover to creatures not in the water.

Admittedly I would ignore the -40 to stealth checks for non-visual based perception rolls. So long as the mephit stays in total cover, I don't see its glowing outline hindering its stealth roll.

[James Jacobs]

I'd say that, underwater, glitterdust works the same as it does above water. Effectively, the underwater version of the spell might be called glittersilt.

[King of Vrock]

Well according to the Aquatic Environmental section...

Quote:

Attacks from Land: Characters swimming, floating, or treading water on the surface, or wading in water at least chest deep, have improved cover (+8 bonus to AC, +4 bonus on Reflex saves) from opponents on land. Land-bound opponents who have freedom of movement effects ignore this cover when making melee attacks against targets in the water. A completely submerged creature has total cover against opponents on land unless those opponents have freedom of movement effects. Magical effects are unaffected except for those that require attack rolls (which are treated like any other effects) and fire effects.

So the water's surface doesn't stop any magical effects except fire spells. So pick a center point and blamo, Glittersilt (nice James).

--Vrock the Boat!

[Kajal]

Thank you King of Vrock,
for the official rules citation. That does seem to make sense. Although,
Glittersilt...uh um Glitterdust is not subject to attacking through the waters surface, nor the rules governing a specific target because of it's area nature.
I concede that the "Dust" would sink in my original scenario after a round or two. The rule I would site is the last sentence on page 432,
I am an advocate of GM discretion in unusual circumstances.

[wraithstrike]

Kajal wrote:

Thank you King of Vrock,

for the official rules citation. That does seem to make sense. Although,
Glittersilt...uh um Glitterdust is not subject to attacking through the waters surface, nor the rules governing a specific target because of it's area nature.
I concede that the "Dust" would sink in my original scenario after a round or two. The rule I would site is the last sentence on page 432,
I am an advocate of GM discretion in unusual circumstances.

What rule is that?

[Kajal]

Less really a rule in and of itself, than a reiteration of perhaps the very first rule. The GM is the final arbitrator. The sentence at the end of page 432 simply states " Some spells might function differently underwater, subject to GM discretion."
Ofcoarse this is a rather slippery position to take, especially on a rules discussion forum however, I'm of the humble opinion it is one of the most implicit rules of the game.
Glitterdust is an amazing spell with a thousand and one uses.
It's utility at the 2nd level spell caliber is unmatched. It also has longevity for it can continue to stay relevant as a caster progresses.
It gets around targeting in many instances. Not subject to SR. Decent range at Medium. Defeats Invisibility and nerfs stealth. Oh and it can blind you. If it is going to benefit from it's attributes nine times out of ten, it should be subject to the environment it so often subjugates.

[wraithstrike]

Kajal wrote:

Less really a rule in and of itself, than a reiteration of perhaps the very first rule. The GM is the final arbitrator. The sentence at the end of page 432 simply states " Some spells might function differently underwater, subject to GM discretion."
Ofcoarse this is a rather slippery position to take, especially on a rules discussion forum however, I'm of the humble opinion it is one of the most implicit rules of the game.
Glitterdust is an amazing spell with a thousand and one uses.
It's utility at the 2nd level spell caliber is unmatched. It also has longevity for it can continue to stay relevant as a caster progresses.
It gets around targeting in many instances. Not subject to SR. Decent range at Medium. Defeats Invisibility and nerfs stealth. Oh and it can blind you. If it is going to benefit from it's attributes nine times out of ten, it should be subject to the environment it so often subjugates.

off-topic: I wonder how much I have to bribe Paizo to make emoticons possible on this site.

If it takes the dust two rounds to work, can I paralyze them, and then glitterdust them?

PS: Ok, so I have nothing better to do than make up questions and statements that don't matter.