Filling Ecological niches in Golarion (or what replaces IP monsters)

[gigglestick]

OK, I saw a thread on here that asked about Mind Flayers in PF and because they are WOTC IP, they don't exist. Some other creature (Neothids?) kind of fill in for them.

SO, my question is, what monsters fit the same niche in Golarion for the WOTC IP creatures like:

Mind Flayers

Beholders

Umber Hulks

Etc.

[Studpuffin]

Did Umber Hulks actually have a niche? I still cannot seem to figure it out, but they always seemed like big burrowing insectoid ogres to me... not exactly a real niche IMO.

[Carpjay]

I'm not exactly answering your question, but for me, nothing replaces a mind flayer. I am making one for the campaign I am just about to run (experienced DM in 3.0 and 3.5, first time running PF). I will make it similiar as much as possible to the 3.5...nothing takes its place.

I guess I would say the same thing for beholders...in a game full of iconic creatures from the many mythologies and tales and traditions around the world, D&D created a few of its own, so it kind of sucks not having them be official...but totally understandable given the legal stuff.

To replace umber hulks, maybe a Xorn or something would work in a similar way. Or you could just take an earth elemental and give it a confusing gaze attack and pincers...i.e., hang the one or two special details and physical description over the framework of a flexible, scaling-HD creature.

I suppose what you are looking for is a clean, tidy list of such creatures that did not make it over for legal reasons, and ideally a parallel list of good substitutions; I don't have either, sorry.

[Shem]

James has said they have no plans to try and go around the IP by making similar monsters with different names. They plan to come up with their own monsters and leave it at that. They have no desire to infringe on IP in anyway.

[gigglestick]

Shem wrote:

James has said they have no plans to try and go around the IP by making similar monsters with different names. They plan to come up with their own monsters and leave it at that. They have no desire to infringe on IP in anyway.

Right.

I'm not looking for a "Magical Eye Orb" or "Confusing Earth Elemental" or "Squid Faced umanoid Psionic"

But I like the idea of the Neolids (I think thats what they used) as their evil mindflayer niche. IT hink its more sisnister

I don;t want paizo to challenge the IP.

Just looking for parallel monsters

Thanks

[Gorbacz]

Intellect Devourers are the replacement for Mind Flayers. Neothelids exist as well, but are not tied to Mind Flayers as they were in 3.5ed.

[Set]

Random not-Beholder option that fits the fluff of the setting;

Oblivion's Eye

[Jam412]

Serpent Folk fill in for Yuan Ti, info on them can be found in Into the Darklands. You can also find info on the Intellect Devourers and Neolithids in that book.
There is a fan created monster called the Ogler to replace the beholder, although I can't seem to find it right now.

[Set]

Jam412 wrote:

Serpent Folk fill in for Yuan Ti, info on them can be found in Into the Darklands.

Being natural shapeshifters, and having degenerate variations, they pretty much take on the infiltrator halfbreed Yuan-Ti role as well as, to a lesser extent, the Abomination role, having masterminds, infiltrators and big dumb brutes among their number.

Serpentfolk were one my favorite things about Green Ronin's Freeport Trilogy. (That and the idea that a nation of Gnomes had enslaved Gargoyles and were using them to declare war on neighboring Kobold tribes and Dwarven communities! Funky.)

[Kthulhu]

After all the trouble they went to to create a backwards-compatible game, is this thread really necessary? C'mon, conversion largely consists of calculating the CMB and CMD. Just because Paizo can't put the monster in one of their products doesn't mean that you can't use it.

[Cartigan]

Of course, what niches did these creatures fill in the first place other than "We need some evil things to control dungeons."

[Andreas Skye]

Concerning Mind Flayers, let's not forget that their entry into D&D was a clear Cthulhhoid Lovecraftian rip-off (when HPL was not public domain yet). PF does have the advantage of full Public Domain access to the Cthulhu Mythos and their beasties!

Hence, instead of the Mind Flayer, you can go straight to the source and produce some degenerate Spawn of Cthulhu (ok, Medium-sized, but who said all Starspawn have to be Colossal?) We already have a good number of PF, both PFRPG and 3.5, books with nice Cthulhu monsters.

Yuan-ti were definitely connected to the Serpent Folk of the Mythos (and of Howard, another Mythos author). PF has "gone to the basics" with a rendering of serpent-men far closer to HPL and friends than to the TSR/Wizards re-interpretation.

[Zurai]

Cartigan wrote:

Of course, what niches did these creatures fill in the first place other than "We need some evil things to control dungeons."

Yeah, that was my first thought. The only MM1 non-OGL monsters that really have any semblance of an ecological niche are Umber Hulks (subterranean scavenger) and Displacer Beasts (hunter of blink dogs).

[Cartigan]

What do Beholders even eat? -_-

[gigglestick]

Zurai wrote:

Cartigan wrote:

Of course, what niches did these creatures fill in the first place other than "We need some evil things to control dungeons."

Yeah, that was my first thought. The only MM1 non-OGL monsters that really have any semblance of an ecological niche are Umber Hulks (subterranean scavenger) and Displacer Beasts (hunter of blink dogs).

They're kind of iconic and show up in a lot of modules and such. Not that we MUST have a replacement for each, but they are still fun.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Sarandosil]

Cartigan wrote:

What do Beholders even eat? -_-

Gems, art objects, and various magic items.

What, where did you think they kept that double standard treasure, in their pockets?

[A Man In Black]

Sarandosil wrote:

Cartigan wrote:

What do Beholders even eat? -_-

Gems, art objects, and various magic items.

What, where did you think they kept that double standard treasure, in their pockets?

In their lairs, in containers or on display. They do have telekinesis.

Aboleths serve much the same role as beholders. They're weird, have lots of different magical abilities, can't go outside, and have an agenda of destroying the world, particularly the parts of the world which are not them.

Intellect devourers and neothelids cover both halves of the mind flayer niche. Dopplegangers do, too, to some extent, if you give them nefarious diets and intent.

Umber hulks are big ugly things that live underground. There are a ton of big ugly things that live underground, and chuuls fill a similar combat niche (bruiser who incapacitates people).