You got it!
Creative Director
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Use the spell's save DC as the CMB part.Thank you for the clarification. So just as an example it might look like this?
The web was cast by a wizard with 18 int. DC of spell would be: 16 therefore the concentration check to cast a 1st level burning hands would be: 10+16+1=27.
Yup; Casting spells when you're caught in a web is not easy!
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Yup; Casting spells when you're caught in a web is not easy!
Use the spell's save DC as the CMB part.Thank you for the clarification. So just as an example it might look like this?
The web was cast by a wizard with 18 int. DC of spell would be: 16 therefore the concentration check to cast a 1st level burning hands would be: 10+16+1=27.
In Black tentacles it's practically impossible! I happened to catch all but 2 of 8 PC's in a Black Tentacles spell over the weekend and it just killed the illusionist and the Loracle. Neither could make the Concentration checks necessary to cast a spell while grappled. The BT's CMD was CL 8 + 4 str + 1 size +10 = 23. To cast a spell you need to make a Concentration check of 10 + CMD + spell level (which is not what my DM screen says, it's only 10 +CMD). In either case the Illusionist 6 w/ 20 Int and the Oracle 6 w/ 22 Chr couldn't possibly make that roll. They were toast.
Is 10 + CMD + spell level correct??? I mean the encounter was CR 9 with eight lvl 6 PC's (APL 7), so it was Hard, but it felt more impossible.
--Vrock & Awe!
It should just be CMD + spell level, IMO. By doing 10 + CMD, you're double dipping on the 'basic' 10, because that's included in CMD as well.
I'm thinking your right about that Zurai, adding that 2nd +10 feels like a kick in the nuts to even spellcasters with moderately high casting stats (we use the Heroic Method)! For point buy that makes Combat Casting a MUST have feat.
--Vrocky & Bullwinkle.
Worse: Combat Casting won't help with this check -- combat casting only helps when casting defensively, not on all concentration checks. This is one of the main reasons I hate that you can't take skill focus in concentration any more.
To illustrate my objection, here's some math:
Take a 3rd level Wizard with rather low Intelligence (16) casting a web. The spell is thus DC 15 and the base concentration check to cast a spell is 25.
A 3rd level Wizard with less than a 14 Int is utterly incapable of casting any spell. With 16 Int, he can cast a cantrip 5% of the time. With 30 Int (which is insanely beyond his allowed wealth), he can cast a cantrip 40% of the time, a 1st level spell 35% of the time, or a 2nd level spell 30% of the time.
A 13th level Wizard with a 26 Int (fairly average) still fails to cast a cantrip 20% of the time and fails to cast a 7th level spell more than half of the time (55%).
A level 3 Wizard with sub-par Intelligence should in no way be able to shut down a level 13 Wizard with significantly higher stats that thoroughly, let alone any lower level characters.
Combat Casting won't help with this check -- combat casting only helps when casting defensively, not on all concentration checks.
Combat Casting helps on concentration checks made to cast a spell while grappled.
You are adept at spellcasting when threatened or distracted.
Benefit: You get a +4 bonus on concentration checks made to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability when casting on the defensive or while grappled.
Thanks meabolex I missed the grappled part in there.
The Concentration check is 10 + CMB + spell level, not CMD. And it's still nasty....
Edit: I don't think the Concentration check to cast in a Web starts at DC 25. The DC (or CMD) to escape the Web is 15. That would make the Web's CMB = 5. So the Concentration check should be 10 + 5 + spell level. Which equates to casting while affected by a non-damaging spell.
Second Edit: And using the DC as the CMB makes it better than Black Tentacles.
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Edit: I don't think the Concentration check to cast in a Web starts at DC 25. The DC (or CMD) to escape the Web is 15. That would make the Web's CMB = 5. So the Concentration check should be 10 + 5 + spell level. Which equates to casting while affected by a non-damaging spell.
The concentration check to cast within web is detailed in the first 3 or 4 posts of this thread.
Use the spell's save DC as the CMB part.
I don't think that this is right at all.
The concentration check to cast within web is detailed in the first 3 or 4 posts of this thread.
Yes, and wrongly, I believe.
It doesn't make sense from what we do know about Web. You can approximate the CMB from the stats given. Your combat maneuver check to escape (using, you got it, your CMB) is the spell's DC. Don't you think that sets up nicely as the spell's CMD? And from that you can calculate the spell's CMB, which happens to be much more in line with the effects of a 2nd level spell, instead of better than a 4th level spell designed to grapple.
To illustrate my objection, here's some math:
Take a 3rd level Wizard with rather low Intelligence (16) casting a web. The spell is thus DC 15 and the base concentration check to cast a spell is 25.
A 3rd level Wizard with less than a 14 Int is utterly incapable of casting any spell. With 16 Int, he can cast a cantrip 5% of the time. With 30 Int (which is insanely beyond his allowed wealth), he can cast a cantrip 40% of the time, a 1st level spell 35% of the time, or a 2nd level spell 30% of the time.
A 13th level Wizard with a 26 Int (fairly average) still fails to cast a cantrip 20% of the time and fails to cast a 7th level spell more than half of the time (55%).
A level 3 Wizard with sub-par Intelligence should in no way be able to shut down a level 13 Wizard with significantly higher stats that thoroughly, let alone any lower level characters.
You're off by 5% on all of these, but the point stands!
I need to go back and look at my books, because I swore it said CMDelta and not CMBravo. I did see the PRD said it was Bravo. I know for sure the GM screen and the book don't match.
--Bourbon on the Vrocks!
Page 206, CMBravo.
Could have also been the fact we were pushing 4am (with the crazy spring forward an hour) when this occured. I knew dropping the Black Tentacles would be a killer move.
--Big Vrock Candy Mountain!
Simply awesome, my man, simply awesome.