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I was listening to a program on NPR today where they had the superintendent from the Rhode Island school on to discuss the reasons why the step to fire all the teachers was taken. This got me to thinking.
Despite whether or not you agree with what happened, in this thread I would like to discuss an idea I have that might help the deplorable education conditions in some parts of our great country. I would also like to see what other ideas you guys have.
To me, a lot of the issue seems to be accountability. Are students in poorly performing districts held to the same accountability standards with regard to their homework and studies as those in better performing districts? It's hard for me to believe that they are. So I was thinking that a system where the day's homework, required reading and studies could be posted online where parents could reference it would be a good way to help with the "no I don't have homework" and "I already did it" issues. The homework itself could be uploaded as well for download and printing.
I don't think that this will solve the issue of lazy and uninvolved parents. I also recognize poverty is often an issue in these problem districts and as a consequence computers and internet are probably less common in households.
What other ways can we think of to help parents be more directly involved besides standing over them with a club while they help their kids do homework?
Tam
I'll point you to >>this thread<<, where a lot of discussion has already gone on over this issue.
So...this thread's not being used for anything, anymore?
So...this thread's not being used for anything, anymore?
Looks like. Time to move in the aliases!
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I am aware of the other thread. I didn't want to start this discussion in the middle of one that seems more focused on the merits or lack there of of the school board's decision. It seemed off-topic enough to justify its own thread.
I generally have the impression that paizo community members are pretty intelligent and I was wondering what other ideas people might have that are more focused than throwing money at the problem.
As someone who is might pursue education as a career I am very interested in what others think.
Tam
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ISSUES
POVERTY: Central Falls High is one of the lowest-performing schools in Rhode Island. It is in a community where median income is $22,000, census figures show.
LANGUAGE DIFICULTIES: Of the 800 students, 65 percent are Hispanic and for most of them, English is a second language. Half the students are failing every subject, with 55 percent skilled in reading and 7 percent proficient in math, officials said.
So it isnt just Poverty. Its the fact that for most of the Students, English is a Second Language. If the Teachers are all teaching in English and expecting the Students to learn English to Pass classes that are taught in English - there is the problem.
How to solve it. Identify the Majority Languages and employ Teachers who can teach in that Language. In this case they need to employ Spanish Teachers who can teach all the Other topics. That may seem insane in a COuntry that insists on English as the Sole Language of its State but the Nation in particular is very Multicultural.
Yes they need to get these kids to do their exams in english because that is pretty much the people who examine them at the end of their education but they must teach like they are a school teaching in spanish where English is the Compulsory Second Language critical in every Level of Education.
As to the isssue of Poverty, it becomes necessary to teach kids Materials Sciences and move them into trades that will make their lives better. Sure it would be great to get all these kids into Engineering Degrees but they all need Trade Skills.
I know how to make mud bricks, construct a Pottery Kiln and a potters wheel, fire or dry bake ceramics, chop firewood, make charcoal, mine ores, construct a furnace, smelt metals, Make tools...skils you wouldnt use until civilization went to s&#+.
I am aware of the other thread. I didn't want to start this discussion in the middle of one that seems more focused on the merits or lack there of of the school board's decision. It seemed off-topic enough to justify its own thread.
I generally have the impression that paizo community members are pretty intelligent and I was wondering what other ideas people might have that are more focused than throwing money at the problem.
As someone who is might pursue education as a career I am very interested in what others think.
Tam
I apologize. I didn't mean to be inconsiderate.
Oops, still in use. Sorry, OP. See you guys in some other vacant threads.
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...I am very interested in what others think.
I think that if someone knew the answer to that, they could solve a lot of issues.
I had a student -- black, female, very good in math, but generally pretty smart -- who deliberately got poor grades on her tests. When I approached her about it she wouldn't tell me what was going on at first. Eventually I got it out of her that if her friends thought that she was smart, then they would cease to be friends. EDIT: I mentioned race and gender becauseif she pursued good grades, she could most likely get a full ride scholorship to the school of her choice being a minority. I don't care about race -- but sometimes it makes it a little easier to get money for college.
So, especially in those kinds of areas, it isn't "cool" to be smart. That's a huge hurdle to get over. It's far easier to put peer pressure on people to be dumb -- not quite as easy to do it the other way.
The parents are also a huge hurdle. I was teaching 8th grade math -- Algebra. What I was teaching the kids, I would say only about 20% of the parents could do. The student's role model throughout their lives is their parents. If their role model can't or won't learn, then why should they.
We have created a society where it's much better or at least easier to blame others for our shortcomings. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I was told that I "gave" out a bad grade. No -- you earned it. I had a student who was on an IEP -- "Special Ed." I was getting kind of frustrated with him because he wasn't trying at all. I kept him after one day to try and work with him. When I asked him the answer to a question, he answered correctly. On every question. When I asked him why he didn't answer correctly on the tests, he looked me straight in the eye and said -- "I've never had to do this before. Why should I start now?" And because he had an IEP, I couldn't fail him unless I had INCREDIBLY well documented how I had accommodated his "need" and yet he failed in that. He was working the system and his parents were going along with it.
The aspirations of these kids was largely to work at McDonalds or something similar. I had a student tell me to my face that he didn't need school because he could ride a skateboard.
I feel like the real question should be, how do you get people to care? Or even how do you get people to see what they could be/do instead of blaming the system for what they aren't?
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...I am very interested in what others think.So, especially in those kinds of areas, it isn't "cool" to be smart. That's a huge hurdle to get over. It's far easier to put peer pressure on people to be dumb -- not quite as easy to do it the other way.
Actually this is why I believe in the Iraqi incentive method. If you lose the socker match you aretaken away and shot for being a waste of resources. Smart isnt Cool - its a survival trait.
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You are right Moff, motivation seemes to be wholely lacking. Short of "capping" kids who don't do well, how do we encourage them to actually care about their performance?
I wonder if it has anything to do with how even the poorer segments of America's population tend to be comfortable. If my parents can work together and be relatively comfortable below the poverty level then why do I need to work harder?
Also, it seems to me that social programs, like welfare, seem to encourage the "I can get everything I need without actually working for it attitude." We seem to encourage and reward this kind of behavior.
Or are we just ignoring some truths of our world. My understanding of natural selection is that some will thrive and contribute to future generations, and some will not. No child left behind is a noble concept, but are the complications we are facing evidence that we are trying to forcefully distance ourselves from the reality of natural selection? As much as we like to think otherwise, we are still animals.
Is trying to help just encouraging people to try less hard on their own?
It is a lot to think on. Thanks for your input Moff.
Tam
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ISSUES
POVERTY: Central Falls High is one of the lowest-performing schools in Rhode Island. It is in a community where median income is $22,000, census figures show.
LANGUAGE DIFICULTIES: Of the 800 students, 65 percent are Hispanic and for most of them, English is a second language. Half the students are failing every subject, with 55 percent skilled in reading and 7 percent proficient in math, officials said.
one of the reading teachers was on the radio yesterday, her class of 36 had to be taught in the hallways, without computers and with books copywritten in 1982... so I'll add funding to your list of issues... I know there are multiple grants from companies like Coke (my old high school has a grant from them where they replace all of the computers ever 6 years or something like that)maybe that should be looked into
also why did the superintendant only fire the high school teachers? According to this teacher the average student she got from the middle school in 9th grade was reading at or below a 4th grade level. to me that doesn't sound like its the high schools fault but those that have the students before they get to the high school
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ISSUES
POVERTY: Central Falls High is one of the lowest-performing schools in Rhode Island. It is in a community where median income is $22,000, census figures show.
LANGUAGE DIFICULTIES: Of the 800 students, 65 percent are Hispanic and for most of them, English is a second language. Half the students are failing every subject, with 55 percent skilled in reading and 7 percent proficient in math, officials said.
one of the reading teachers was on the radio yesterday, her class of 36 had to be taught in the hallways, without computers and with books copywritten in 1982... so I'll add funding to your list of issues... I know there are multiple grants from companies like Coke (my old high school has a grant from them where they replace all of the computers ever 6 years or something like that)maybe that should be looked into
also why did the superintendant only fire the high school teachers? According to this teacher the average student she got from the middle school in 9th grade was reading at or below a 4th grade level. to me that doesn't sound like its the high schools fault but those that have the students before they get to the high school
The didnt just sack the teachers...they sacked every one (admin included).
It comes down to incentives.
If a child does not believe there are sufficient reasons for them to do school work over watching tv or hanging out with friends then they won't do it.
Maybe if schools showed kids the lifestyles of successful people over poor people they'd have the proper perspective.
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Maybe if schools showed kids the lifestyles of successful people over poor people they'd have the proper perspective.
That helps, but if it's done the right way. Bringing a celebrity to the school to talk to the kids doesn't help. In their mind, they separate "us" with "them". They never see that they could be "them".
If the parents are friends with people in better situations or at least in a good range of job types/skills, then it becomes more likely -- because you are confusing the line between "us" and "them". We have friends who are doctors, lawyers, bankers, teachers, etc. (We also have friends who work at Subway.) Our kids as a result don't feel that they have any limitations. If all the kids know are people who are minimum wage jobs, then that becomes their world.
Well to do that we will need a country to invade. I hear Australia is nice this time of year.
Why dont they just millitarize both Medicine and Education.
If we're already going all that way let's just take New Zealand instead. It's like Australia, only more Middle-Earthy.
I thought we were already colonizing Afghanistan and Iraq. Where the hell are my tax dollars going?
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I thought we were already colonizing Afghanistan and Iraq. Where the hell are my tax dollars going?
On that note, even though President Obama has said we will be pulling troops out of both places with in 18 months the National Guard battalion here in Cedar City was just placed on operational alert, meaning that they will deploy within the year. Their destination is Iraq.
Or are we just ignoring some truths of our world. My understanding of natural selection is that some will thrive and contribute to future generations, and some will not. No child left behind is a noble concept, but are the complications we are facing evidence that we are trying to forcefully distance ourselves from the reality of natural selection? As much as we like to think otherwise, we are still animals.
No child left behind may be a noble concept, but it fails completely at what it's trying to do. It sets unreasonable expectations on schools and punishes them pretty much regardless of the outcome.
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Or are we just ignoring some truths of our world. My understanding of natural selection is that some will thrive and contribute to future generations, and some will not. No child left behind is a noble concept, but are the complications we are facing evidence that we are trying to forcefully distance ourselves from the reality of natural selection? As much as we like to think otherwise, we are still animals.No child left behind may be a noble concept, but it fails completely at what it's trying to do. It sets unreasonable expectations on schools and punishes them pretty much regardless of the outcome.
Time to build a new city where only those with University Degrees in Engineering can live. Wealth can no longer a guarantee of Status. It must be Education. Anyone who doesnt get a University Degree should be relegated to Ditch Digger and deported to one of those underpopulated Agricultural Regions.
To make sure the Teachers are not the problem, they should also be tested annually for their Teaching License.
Dang...the Soviets were right.