Oracle

[McVargas]

Do Oracle bonus spells gained through thier selected focus count as divine or arcane, perhaps i just missed it in the reading. If they count as arcane could they be used to meet requirements for PrC?

[Noir le Lotus]

When a cleric gains access to wizard/sorcerer spells via his domains, these spells are considered divine when he casts them.

I think the same thing can be applied to the oracle.

[McVargas]

Maybe, but i'd rather not assume.

[seekerofshadowlight]

As he is a divine caster then, yes all spells cast are divine in nature unless it clearly states they are not. Much like a clerics domain spells or a bard casting arcane based healing spells

[Scooter Scott]

So the next question then becomes (and I know this is a feat from 3.5) if an oracle of fire takes the energy substitution feat (Complete Arcane), which doesn't specifically state it is arcane, can the fireball become an acidball, or even a ligntning ball depending on the energy type chosen?

[Mojorat]

once you have the spells on your list they are treated like any other spell. you would apply the metamagic feat like normal.

[Bobson]

One interesting upshot of this rule is that a cleric (or oracle) can scribe divine versions of spells that are normally found only on arcane spell lists, and they can only be used by other divine casters who have access to that spell. Likewise, bards can only use arcane scrolls of cure spells, which only other bards can make.

Edit: Just to clarify, this only applies to scrolls. Wands and staves aren't arcane or divine specifically, so they'll work as long as you have the spell, regardless of what kind of magic you do.

[Kierato]

Bobson wrote:

One interesting upshot of this rule is that a cleric (or oracle) can scribe divine versions of spells that are normally found only on arcane spell lists, and they can only be used by other divine casters who have access to that spell. Likewise, bards can only use arcane scrolls of cure spells, which only other bards can make.

Edit: Just to clarify, this only applies to scrolls. Wands and staves aren't arcane or divine specifically, so they'll work as long as you have the spell, regardless of what kind of magic you do.

Witches can make arcane cure scrolls.

[Bobson]

Kierato wrote:

Bobson wrote:

One interesting upshot of this rule is that a cleric (or oracle) can scribe divine versions of spells that are normally found only on arcane spell lists, and they can only be used by other divine casters who have access to that spell. Likewise, bards can only use arcane scrolls of cure spells, which only other bards can make.

Edit: Just to clarify, this only applies to scrolls. Wands and staves aren't arcane or divine specifically, so they'll work as long as you have the spell, regardless of what kind of magic you do.

Witches can make arcane cure scrolls.

Thanks, I didn't know that. Never really looked at the witch rules. So bards and witches can share scrolls, but the party cleric can't borrow them, or vice versa.

[Scooter Scott]

Just for a little more clarification... Does the character actually have to have the spell (in their spellbook for wizards, or known for just about everyone else) or just have it as a possible spell on their list?

[Kierato]

Scooter Scott wrote:

Just for a little more clarification... Does the character actually have to have the spell (in their spellbook for wizards, or known for just about everyone else) or just have it as a possible spell on their list?

Just on their spell list to use a scroll/wand. They need to know it to make it (have it in there spell books, etc).

[Rory]

Bobson wrote:

One interesting upshot of this rule is that a cleric (or oracle) can scribe divine versions of spells that are normally found only on arcane spell lists, and they can only be used by other divine casters who have access to that spell. Likewise, bards can only use arcane scrolls of cure spells, which only other bards can make.

Edit: Just to clarify, this only applies to scrolls. Wands and staves aren't arcane or divine specifically, so they'll work as long as you have the spell, regardless of what kind of magic you do.

Not doubting the above, but to take this one step further...

What is to stop a wizard from scribing this "arcane cure spell" into their spellbook?

[Ughbash]

Rory wrote:

Bobson wrote:

One interesting upshot of this rule is that a cleric (or oracle) can scribe divine versions of spells that are normally found only on arcane spell lists, and they can only be used by other divine casters who have access to that spell. Likewise, bards can only use arcane scrolls of cure spells, which only other bards can make.

Edit: Just to clarify, this only applies to scrolls. Wands and staves aren't arcane or divine specifically, so they'll work as long as you have the spell, regardless of what kind of magic you do.

Not doubting the above, but to take this one step further...

What is to stop a wizard from scribing this "arcane cure spell" into their spellbook?

It is not on the list of spells a wizard can learn.

[Rory]

Ughbash wrote:

It is not on the list of spells a wizard can learn.

I thought Wizards could research new arcane spells.

Given a copy of an arcane spell that isn't on their list (assuming it wasn't from a prohibited school for a specialist wizard of course), they can't research and/or scribe the new spell?

[Selgard]

A wizard has to have it on his spell list- same for sorcs.

For oracles, druids, witches, and anyone else "like that" they have to have it on their specific "special list" in addition to their class list.

For example: every revelation grants different spells. You only get credit for the spells on yuor own revelation list- not every revelation. The same is true for clerics and domains. They pick their domains- but can't use spell completion devices for every domain- just the ones they selected.

(hope that makes sense)

-S

[Rory]

Selgard wrote:

A wizard has to have it on his spell list- same for sorcs.

(hope that makes sense)

This precludes spell "research", which the game does allow? Or does it not?

I would have never dreamt the bard's scribed version of the cure spell was an "arcane spell". I was surprised that it was described as such.

Make no mistake, I would never allow the wizard to scribe a cure light wounds, but that is because I always thought of it as a divine spell. Sure bards can use arcane power to cast spells, but I thought they were just twisting the divine spell (sort of like a class ability thing akin to how they got the cure spell on their spell list to start with) to cast it as an arcane spell.

Calling it an arcane Cure Light Wounds scroll just seems to open up a whole can of worms.

Thus my original question...

[Gignere]

Rory wrote:

Selgard wrote:

A wizard has to have it on his spell list- same for sorcs.

(hope that makes sense)

This precludes spell "research", which the game does allow? Or does it not?

I would have never dreamt the bard's scribed version of the cure spell was an "arcane spell". I was surprised that it was described as such.

Make no mistake, I would never allow the wizard to scribe a cure light wounds, but that is because I always thought of it as a divine spell. Sure bards can use arcane power to cast spells, but I thought they were just twisting the divine spell (sort of like a class ability thing akin to how they got the cure spell on their spell list to start with) to cast it as an arcane spell.

Calling it an arcane Cure Light Wounds scroll just seems to open up a whole can of worms.

Thus my original question...

I always thought that it was silly cure spells should only be available to divine casters. What is the harm in letting the wizards or sorcerers cast a few cure spells about equal to a bard? Given the action economy it is probably an arcane caster nerf.

[Kierato]

Spell casters can research new spells, and in an older edition, you could add a spell from a different list at +1 or +2 caster levels. There were also a few ways wizards could cast a variety of divine spells back in 3.5

[Gignere]

Kierato wrote:

Spell casters can research new spells, and in an older edition, you could add a spell from a different list at +1 or +2 caster levels. There were also a few ways wizards could cast a variety of divine spells back in 3.5

You still can it is called limited wish, wish and summon monster. I also wonder if whether the shadow conjuration spells can mimic a healing spell?

[Kierato]

Gignere wrote:

Kierato wrote:

Spell casters can research new spells, and in an older edition, you could add a spell from a different list at +1 or +2 caster levels. There were also a few ways wizards could cast a variety of divine spells back in 3.5

You still can it is called limited wish, wish and summon monster. I also wonder if whether the shadow conjuration spells can mimic a healing spell?

Shadow conjuration is [summoning] and [creation] only.