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Belier's Bite is a Feat from the Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils.
Prereq: Improved Unarmed Strike
Benefit: when you damage an opponent with an unarmed attack, you deal an extra 1d4 bleed damage.
To me this is a feat that a monk, and many other PCs, would take every time and it's something a monk can take at first level.
Consider that a Rogue has to be 2nd level to take the Bleeding Attack Rogue Talent, which would give the rogue 2 points of bleed (equal to sneak dice) and only usable against living creature and only when the rogue uses sneak attack. Yes, I know it will eventually scale, but the feat allows a monk to do 4 points of bleed at 1st level while a rogue would have to wait until 7th level.
Now, this might lead into the other debate that's out there that says the bleed condition should only work against living creatures anyhow--but there is not a definitive answer to this--and even if it were only against living creatures, the Belier's bite still seems fairly strong.
I'm not sure if this was suppose to be a fix for the monk to bring up damage or if the compendium (and feat) were created before PF Final.
Thoughts?
Belier's Bite is a Feat from the Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils.
Prereq: Improved Unarmed Strike
Benefit: when you damage an opponent with an unarmed attack, you deal an extra 1d4 bleed damage.
To me this is a feat that a monk, and many other PCs, would take every time and it's something a monk can take at first level.
Consider that a Rogue has to be 2nd level to take the Bleeding Attack Rogue Talent, which would give the rogue 2 points of bleed (equal to sneak dice) and only usable against living creature and only when the rogue uses sneak attack. Yes, I know it will eventually scale, but the feat allows a monk to do 4 points of bleed at 1st level while a rogue would have to wait until 7th level.
Now, this might lead into the other debate that's out there that says the bleed condition should only work against living creatures anyhow--but there is not a definitive answer to this--and even if it were only against living creatures, the Belier's bite still seems fairly strong.
I'm not sure if this was suppose to be a fix for the monk to bring up damage or if the compendium (and feat) were created before PF Final.
Thoughts?
HA! I'm not the only one who thought this.
This has also already been discussed here.
HA! I'm not the only one who thought this.
This has also already been discussed here.
Thanks! I missed that thread. That thread helped me with how to run the bleed with flurry too. Maybe we can get some more discussion on this topic now that more people have had experience with it.
I wouldn't mind seeing someone from Paizo chime in to the timing of when the feat was released to give me a better feel as to whether this was beta-type feat or right in line for PF Final and a desired increase to the power of a monk.
I know if all my players took it, so would all my monsters. It's as simple as that.
Allowing it to stack is a bit strong, but it is implied. You take it with an unarmed strike. And an insinuates one attack and if you have multiple attacks you would get multiple bleeds.
Allowing it to stack would be to ignore the rules:
Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.
As I see it, the feat's own "special" further limits the stackability of bleed from Belier's Bite, by not allowing it to stack under any circumstance (even if it would deal a different kind of damage from some other bleed effect).
Allowing it to stack is a bit strong, but it is implied. You take it with an unarmed strike. And an insinuates one attack and if you have multiple attacks you would get multiple bleeds.Allowing it to stack would be to ignore the rules:
Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.As I see it, the feat's own "special" further limits the stackability of bleed from Belier's Bite, by not allowing it to stack under any circumstance (even if it would deal a different kind of damage from some other bleed effect).
There's more than one type of bleed damage? Honestly, I'd say it limits Belier's Bite from stacking with itself, and the same goes with the bleed from the Rogue Talent.
But if a Rogue got both Belier's Bite AND the Rogue Talent Bleed? They'd stack unless it specifically states otherwise. The Rogue Talent Bleed is a constant amount of damage that scales with Sneak Attack Dice. The other is a random D4 roll upon a successful unarmed strike.
Two independent sources of bleed should stack. Two bleed effects from the same source would not stack.
There's more than one type of bleed damage?
Yes. The different types are: Regular damage, ability damage, and ability drain.
Allowing it to stack is a bit strong, but it is implied. You take it with an unarmed strike. And an insinuates one attack and if you have multiple attacks you would get multiple bleeds.Allowing it to stack would be to ignore the rules:
Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.As I see it, the feat's own "special" further limits the stackability of bleed from Belier's Bite, by not allowing it to stack under any circumstance (even if it would deal a different kind of damage from some other bleed effect).
There's more than one type of bleed damage? Honestly, I'd say it limits Belier's Bite from stacking with itself, and the same goes with the bleed from the Rogue Talent.
But if a Rogue got both Belier's Bite AND the Rogue Talent Bleed? They'd stack unless it specifically states otherwise. The Rogue Talent Bleed is a constant amount of damage that scales with Sneak Attack Dice. The other is a random D4 roll upon a successful unarmed strike.
Two independent sources of bleed should stack. Two bleed effects from the same source would not stack.
The only kinds of bleed effects that stack would be the ones that say they do, mainly the Wounding special ability which specifically says "This stacks with itself, but not other things that cause bleed damage". Bleed damage generally only counts the highest total dealt: If a magus with the Arcane Edge magus arcana (Which allows them to deal bleed damage equal to their Intelligence modifier on a successful hit with a piercing or slashing weapon) deals 3 points of bleed damage to an enemy and a rogue with the Bleeding Attack deals 5 points of bleed damage to the same enemy, the higher total prevails and the enemy takes 5 points of bleeding damage at the correct point in time.
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I can see how this feat is good at 1st to 3rd level ; but really, unless I'm missing something, dealing a maximum of 1d4 bonus damage at the beginning of your enemy's round is a pretty weak ability unless the guy has no healing handy or you are performing hit-and-run-or-tank tactics. Remember that dealing 1d4 bleed damage on any strike just means you deal damage normally, then your enemy suffers a single d4 damage at the beginning of his round.
The 1d4 bonus damage won't matter much in later levels since your average dude may die after two or three full-round attacks, so sometimes not even 3 rounds to lose hit points. You will always be better improving your precision or brutality if you want to deal more damage.