Last session, my players entered the shrine (room 5) of Bhal-Hamatugn. During the battle with the kuo-toa, which lasted 6 rounds, the party warlock (level 6) cast dispel magic on the statue, and rolled a natural 20 on the dispel check (total 26). This was just enough to dispel the statue (caster level 15th+11 = DC 26).
As per the spell description, a magic item like the statue is suppressed for 1d4 rounds. I rolled a 2. Of course, the unhallow and lightning bolt properties of the statue return after that time.
However I am undecided on how to rule the planar ally effect which calls Aushanna. 3 possibilities:
1) The calling has simply been delayed 2 rounds. Aushanna will now appear after 22 rounds, instead of 20.
2) The calling has been disrupted, and Aushanna will not arrive. Since the calling is triggered "Whenever a nonevil character enters area 5", the calling can be triggered if and when the party exits and then re-enters the room.
3) Same as #2 above, but this can't happen until an hour has elapsed, which might be after the party has left with Zenith if they work fast.
Any advice?
thanks
Yoav Spiegel,
After reading dispel magic and reading the write up for area 5, I think the solution rests in determining how you see the planar ally variant working.
If you consider the planar ally variant being a spell that is cast the moment a nonevil creature enters the area, then the spell was already cast and the 20 round delay is merely the time it takes Aushanna to prepare and arrive. The dispel magic had no effect in regards to this ability of the statue.
If you consider the planar ally variant being a spell that has a casting time of 20 rounds that begins the moment a nonevil creature enters the area, again the dispel magic would have no effect on the planar ally variant since the statue was the target of the dispel.
To disrupt the planar ally variant, the dispel magic would have needed to have been used as a counter spell against it specifically. If this attempt was successful, the spell would have been disrupted and the statue would need to wait an hour before being able to cast it again since it has a 1-hour reset on being able to cast the spell.
Finally, if you see the planar ally variant merely being a power of the statue that needs 20 rounds to happen, then the dispel magic did suppress this power for 2 rounds and when the statue recovers, it will resume the planar ally variant where it left off and Aushanna will arrive in 22 rounds total.
So, based I my reading, I would say Aushanna at most would be delayed 2 rounds using the 3rd interpretation. I do not think that the base dispel magic would be powerful enough to have completely disrupted the calling or forced the one hour delay when used against the statue itself and not as a counter spell.
Personally, given that none of the characters should even be aware that the calling is occurring, I would just have Aushanna show as scheduled or delay it by 2 rounds if you see the dispel magic affecting that ability of the statue.
I hope the above was of some help and good luck with your campaign.
Good gaming,
Mark
Finally, if you see the planar ally variant merely being a power of the statue that needs 20 rounds to happen, then the dispel magic did suppress this power for 2 rounds and when the statue recovers, it will resume the planar ally variant where it left off and Aushanna will arrive in 22 rounds total.
Personally, if it were my campaign, this is the option I would go with: the statue builds up power for 20 rounds until it is sufficient to summon the devil. However, unlike Marcos, I think that because the statue is nonmagical when it is successfully dispelled, the built up power is lost, and requires 20 more rounds once it becomes magical again.
Also, I wouldn't interpret the "enters area 5" phrase too literally. I think the mere presence of a nonevil character in the room would be sufficient for the statue to start the process of summoning Aushanna. The trigger for the "trap" isn't on the doorway, it's the whole room.
Personally, if it were my campaign, this is the option I would go with: the statue builds up power for 20 rounds until it is sufficient to summon the devil. However, unlike Marcos, I think that because the statue is nonmagical when it is successfully dispelled, the built up power is lost, and requires 20 more rounds once it becomes magical again.
I do not have access to the area, but this is they way I would play it. You disrupted the effect with the dispel magic and it needs to start from square 1 again.
Personally, if it were my campaign, this is the option I would go with: the statue builds up power for 20 rounds until it is sufficient to summon the devil. However, unlike Marcos, I think that because the statue is nonmagical when it is successfully dispelled, the built up power is lost, and requires 20 more rounds once it becomes magical again.I do not have access to the area, but this is they way I would play it. You disrupted the effect with the dispel magic and it needs to start from square 1 again.
I like this option also. Since the dispel was cast on round 4, and ended after round 6, Aushanna will now appear after round 26.
Thanks for the advice.
Hi All,
I’m glad that the ideas were of some use and you have an idea of what you will have happen. I just wanted to explain why I saw the disruption only delaying the summoning by 2 rounds.
In the description of dispel magic in the PHB, in regards to targeting an item, are the following sentences:
“If you succeed, all of the item’s magical properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds, after which the item recovers on its own. A suppressed item becomes nonmagical for the duration of the effect.”
I can see the rational that because the statue was nonmagical for a time, there could be a complete reset to the summoning. However (based on the first sentence), if the planar ally variant is considered a power, then it was merely delayed, not cancelled as a result of the dispel magic since the item would recover on its own. After all, the unhallow effects and lightning bolt properties are resuming when the suppression ends, so I thought it made sense to have the planar ally variant resume along with them.
Anyway, like I said, I just wanted to explain why I thought the way I did. My one group has just begun chapter 4 and I think its great being able to discuss stuff like this here since it can’t but help if my party attempts the same tactic.
Good gaming,
Mark
I can see the rational that because the statue was nonmagical for a time, there could be a complete reset to the summoning. However (based on the first sentence), if the planar ally variant is considered a power, then it was merely delayed, not cancelled as a result of the dispel magic since the item would recover on its own. After all, the unhallow effects and lightning bolt properties are resuming when the suppression ends, so I thought it made sense to have the planar ally variant resume along with them.Anyway, like I said, I just wanted to explain why I thought the way I did. My one group has just begun chapter 4 and I think its great being able to discuss stuff like this here since it can�t but help if my party attempts the same tactic.
Good gaming,
Mark
Mark,
I see your point. In any case, any DM ruling here, I think, is bound to be non-definitive, since we really aren't given the complete rules for how the statue's "variant of the planar ally spell" works in the text of the adventure.Indeed, I'm beginning to agree with your first suggestion, and think that the spell itself was cast long ago, and that the 2 miniutes is the time needed for Aushanna to respond to an alarm sent by the statue when the party enters. In that case, she will still arrive after 20 rounds.
All of these variants (20 rounds, 22, 26) are pretty equivalent, though. Much different would be a ruling that the statue must wait until the party re-enters the shrine or until an hour has passed. No one seems to favor those possibilites, though which is good. I am looking forward to the party facing her. :>)
Yoav
Yoav,
I also cannot wait until my group faces off against her when they invade the Kuo-toan shrine. From everything I have read here on the boards, Aushanna is one tough fight for the unprepared, but doable for those lucky enough to retreat, regroup, and prepare to do a little devil hunting. ;-)
I figure that my group will most likely do well, even if surprised, since we use Action Points as found in the Unearthed Arcana. I have found that they really do provide a nice boost in terms of their utility (spell recall or feat simulation anyone?) and allow a party to survive challenges that might overpower them otherwise.
Anyway, have fun when Aushanna shows up and you will have to let us know how it turns out. When my group faces her I will let you know how their encounter went as well. :-)
Good Gaming,
Mark
More Aushanna questions:
If we do allow Dispel Magic, what level caster was the spell at?
Once Aushanna has appeared, can she be dispelled? The Planar Ally spell is instantaneous so that would be no. But Aushanna can only remain 10 minutes so it sounds like an active spell, so Dispel yes.
Generally, a planar ally is bargained with once summoned. What if all the Kuo-toa are dead? Does Aushanna know what to do? Does she know the PCs are enemies?
For the teleport issue, has Aushanna been in the temple before?
(The reason for these questions is this: For my campaign, the summoning was a magic item, not the big statue. My players dispatched the Kuo-toa quickly and then took and put the magic item in the jail cell where Aushanna was summoned. They plan to Bluff her next session into doing their biding.)
DMFTodd,
The original statue had a caster level of 15 I believe, so I would use that.
As far as dispelling Aushanna, dispel magic would not work based on how I read the text in the SCAP hardbound. The limited time of 10 minutes seems to be based more on what her bargain was with the Kuo-toan clergy when the planar ally variant was cast and less on being an active spell duration.
That said, Aushanna could still be affected by dispel evil or similar spells.
As far as Aushanna knowing what to do if the Kuo-toan are all dead, I would say she would. The bargain for the planar ally variant was made when the spell was originally cast. That bargain was basically for Aushanna to engage any good aligned foes that violate the sanctity of the shrine to the best of her ability and destroy them. With her having being summoned in the first place, she would take any non-kuo-toan in the shrine to be her foes.
Regarding the teleport issue, I would say that Aushanna has been in the shrine and fortress several times over the course of her service to consider it at least studied carefully if not very familiar. In addition, since she has greater teleport, there would be no chance of her teleporting with any error at either of those familiarity levels.
Now all of the above was written from the stand point of how I remember the information being treated in the SCAP, with the statue being the summoning item and the spell being the planar ally variant. Looking at what you say is happening in your campaign, with a different magic item and the players actively summoning Aushanna I would suggest you think on the following:
1) Does the magic item still follow the basic function of the original statue as it applies to Aushanna and the planar ally variant? If so, I would follow the suggestions of the SCAP regarding Aushanna’s tactics and reactions. If not, read on.
2) Are the players/characters aware that the magic item will summon an erinyes specifically, a denizen of a lower plane, or just an outsider in general? If not, Aushanna may attempt to convince them she is a bound celestial (see the erinyes description in the monster manual).
3) Read over Aushanna and be familiar with her capabilities and what the nature of an erinyes is (Telepathy, charm monster, high diplomacy and sense motive skills). Can the group truly bluff her?
4) The jail cell is no obstacle to her. Greater teleport will get her out even if you rule that she is unfamiliar with the shrine and fortress. All she has to do is teleport to the other side of the bars as far away as she can see. From there her flight and greater teleport should give her superior maneuverability to engage or evade the party.
5) If you are saying that the magic item is casting the planar ally spell as found in the player’s handbook, the group will have to offer suitable payment for Aushanna’s services. Depending on the task requested, the complexity of the task, and the length of the task, this could be very expensive for the party to pay.
6) Think of what possible repercussions could result from any good characters of a religious bent (clerics and paladins) knowingly bargaining with a fiend.
I hope the above is of some use and good luck with your campaign.
Good gaming,
Mark
>> The bargain for the planar ally variant was made when the spell was originally cast.
I like that idea. The spell has been cast previously, the arrangements already made, Aushanna has been here before. She probably directly attacks the PCs.
I think my PCs have come up with a somewhat interesting plan so I hate to immediately thwart it. For my campaign, it makes sense that Aushanna is not going to risk her life for clerics that are already dead (far as she knows, Mangh is still around but she doesn't know that). So if the PCs don't anger her, they might be able to avoid this fight.
Instead of treating the statue as a magical item, I treated the room as having permenant magic effects emanating from the statue. A dispel targeting the statue would be treated as a targeted dispel, requiring seperate rolls for each magical effect.