This idea was brought up here.
Since prepainted miniatures are out of the realm of possibility. Would there be enough demand for decent cardstock NPC/Monster tokens to go along with the adventure paths?
I know I for one would order every set. I like having the actual representation of the BBEG rather than, "This Large based figure may look like a slaad, but it's really a frost giant."
What's your take on this?
|
Since prepainted miniatures are out of the realm of possibility. Would there be enough demand for decent cardstock NPC/Monster tokens to go along with the adventure paths?
Can I add a +1 and also say that an explicit license to use the PDF version of this to create tokens for use on virtual tabletops would be fantastic.
I'd order a PDF supplement to the bestiaries that had these for the monsters within as well.
I am currently running Burnt Offerings and have gone the Token way instead of using miniatures. Acutally, the only miniature on the board is the one from my solo player. All other creatures/NPCs/familiars/animal companions/ etc. are home built tokens.
For this I use Token Tools and either art from the Adventure Path, the Bestiary, the Core Rulebook, the blog, my Fiery Dragon Digital Counter Collection or art swiped of sites like Deviant art or Elfwood. I print out the tokens and glue them on washers to give them weight.
That said, if Paizo would put out pre-made token art, I would definitely consider buying it. As for cardstock tokens, I bought the first Counter Collection from Fiery Dragon back in the D&D 3.0 days. I find that cardstock alone is too light. The tokens have a tendancy to move on their own due to breeze, sneeze, hand wave or anything really. That's why I glue my home made ones on washers.
My 2 cp.
P.S.: I also run games using Maptools. Digital tokens are therefore my first choice.
Anyone remember POGs?
You could have the correct sized discs and they could be mass produced as blanks, then have the correct sized and character's sticker applied to the top.
Paizo wouldn't even have to assemble them. Send the blanks with the sticker sheets and allow the players to do it.
|
Anyone remember POGs?
You could have the correct sized discs and they could be mass produced as blanks, then have the correct sized and character's sticker applied to the top.
Paizo wouldn't even have to assemble them. Send the blanks with the sticker sheets and allow the players to do it.
I would trade in every single one of my map packs for a single APs worth of creature counters.
This is a fantastic idea and one that I'd actually use (as opposed to one that sits on my shelf in shrink-wrap and never gets looked at).
Yeah, I'd be up for adding counters alongside paper minis.
|
I really like this idea! Paizo would probably have to wait until the end of the AP to sell the counters (since all of the art is not available until the AP is finished).
Even if these were just thick stock with square shapes that the user cuts apart, I think it would be great. I do not need prepunched circles or anything special, if that would get too expensive. It would be cool - but not neccessary for my needs.
If I really dream - I can see this as a feature in all of the modules and the AP's.
Lisa was saying in the minis post about how they would love to do mini's if it was cost feasable.
I was thinking hard about over the last couple of days, and the artwork that Paizo has put out so far has knocked my socks off.
Why would I want a mini, where the detail would be lacking (The cost for the detail to be as good as 2d art would be phenominal), when I could see this dynamic piece of art move around my mat.
Another wrinkle for the producers at Paizo to contemplate:
Product 1 = Blank tokens (card stock/plastic/wood/whatever is heavy duty and cost effective) sized from small(tiny and diminuative would be too small to produce/easy to lose) to Colossal. Break it down in packs. 12 smalls to a pack, 10 mediums, 6 larges, 2 huges, 1 gargantuan and 1 colossal.
Product 2 = Art stickers sized to the token shape. AP packs - Module packs - Beast packs - Etc.
This way would be the lease expensive to produce IMO. You save on "building" the tokens, by having the player base have to assemble.
|
|
Another wrinkle for the producers at Paizo to contemplate:
Product 1 = Blank tokens (card stock/plastic/wood/whatever is heavy duty and cost effective) sized from small(tiny and diminuative would be too small to produce/easy to lose) to Colossal. Break it down in packs. 12 smalls to a pack, 10 mediums, 6 larges, 2 huges, 1 gargantuan and 1 colossal.
Product 2 = Art stickers sized to the token shape. AP packs - Module packs - Beast packs - Etc.
This way would be the lease expensive to produce IMO. You save on "building" the tokens, by having the player base have to assemble.
I don't really like the stickers idea. I'm perfectly fine with card-stock art which can be punched, or if cost prohibitive, can be cut out.
The other product (the blank tokens) would be okay if it weren't already something that's pretty easy to get your hands on, especially since the stuff that's available (Alea tools for example) already has peel-and-stick backing for whatever you want to attach to it in both size large and medium. Making the product compatible with other popular options such as these might make it even more appealing (since right now I have to find artwork and punch my own paper minis out if I want to use the Alea tools).
Well, creatures with hard-to-find mini representations aren't just medium and large, so Alea isn't a complete fix for me. Plastic counters of all sizes, that you could reuse by removing and replacing the picture with something other than adhesive, would be great. Otherwise, heavy card-stock.
|
|
Well, creatures with hard-to-find mini representations aren't just medium and large, so Alea isn't a complete fix for me. Plastic counters of all sizes, that you could reuse by removing and replacing the picture with something other than adhesive, would be great. Otherwise, heavy card-stock.
I was just thinking of the versatility of card-stock over stickers. They're usable with a number of alternatives.
I started to buy into those, but they're all the same size, right?
|
even something like THIS the iconics on it would be super neat!
Those are cool, but aren't they bigger than one inch?
even something like THIS the iconics on it would be super neat!Those are cool, but aren't they bigger than one inch?
They look to be poker chips with stickers... which are not to scale with PFRPG standard sizes. Bigger then a medium sized base
|
|
They look to be poker chips with stickers... which are not to scale with PFRPG standard sizes. Bigger then a medium sized baseeven something like THIS the iconics on it would be super neat!Those are cool, but aren't they bigger than one inch?
Thought I saw those at GenCon. Yea, I think just cardstock will work for me. The Alea Tools looks cool though.
|
As someone whose miniature fixation already exceeds a reasonable budget in the Warhammer Fantasy/40K realm, I needed something like this of my own a while ago.
With that, I've been doing for the better part of about 7 months now.
I have some adobe pdf documents that are gridded to the various monster sizes, and automatically resize images into the grid. They are availalbe from Fiery Dragon Games, and are known as the Interactive countersheet (in 1, 2, 3 and 4 inch).
Export all the images from the AP/Bestiary/Etc... (Thank God for white backgrounds on the art)
Insert into Template, and print to heavy card stock.
A few minutes of time with an X-acto and I'm done. Now, they're not necessarily high-quality, plastic or boardgame quality like some folks might want to see on a table, but my players have never complained.
I'm hoping that since none of the staff have jumped on here yet, that this thread caused an emergency product planning session lol.
|
|
As someone whose miniature fixation already exceeds a reasonable budget in the Warhammer Fantasy/40K realm, I needed something like this of my own a while ago.
With that, I've been doing for the better part of about 7 months now.
I have some adobe pdf documents that are gridded to the various monster sizes, and automatically resize images into the grid. They are availalbe from Fiery Dragon Games, and are known as the Interactive countersheet (in 1, 2, 3 and 4 inch).
Export all the images from the AP/Bestiary/Etc... (Thank God for white backgrounds on the art)
Insert into Template, and print to heavy card stock.
A few minutes of time with an X-acto and I'm done. Now, they're not necessarily high-quality, plastic or boardgame quality like some folks might want to see on a table, but my players have never complained.
Not all the art had black backgrounds for me from the bestiary. Am I doing something wrong when I copy them out of adobe reader?
|
|
Not all the art had black backgrounds for me from the bestiary. Am I doing something wrong when I copy them out of adobe reader?
Hmm ... I suspect that it's because I have a fully licenced copy of Adobe Acrobat, so when I get the images out of the Bestiary, et al, I'm actually doing a document processing action, and not just a right-click copy and paste kind of action.
Images for me come out with either transparent backgrounds, or solid white.
I really like this idea! Paizo would probably have to wait until the end of the AP to sell the counters (since all of the art is not available until the AP is finished).
This is something to think about; if you have to wait until the end of the AP to publish any counters/tokens from the AP, those who pick up the adventures and begin running them immediately will go about 5 months without having access to the official counters/tokens.
The ideal solution would be to release the tokens all when the first adventure is published, but obviously the nature of the production of an AP might prohibit that.
There is a third option, though I'm not sure how it would be implemented, or if it would be feasible: publish counters with each AP adventure. You could bundle them with the adventure, or sell them separately, or make them a subscriber perk, or whatever.
|
|
Not all the art had black backgrounds for me from the bestiary. Am I doing something wrong when I copy them out of adobe reader?Hmm ... I suspect that it's because I have a fully licenced copy of Adobe Acrobat, so when I get the images out of the Bestiary, et al, I'm actually doing a document processing action, and not just a right-click copy and paste kind of action.
Images for me come out with either transparent backgrounds, or solid white.
Interesting. I get a about a 50/50 spread. I'm looking to see if there is a program outthere that can hep me out with correcting the background. Hmm.
There is a third option, though I'm not sure how it would be implemented, or if it would be feasible: publish counters with each AP adventure. You could bundle them with the adventure, or sell them separately, or make them a subscriber perk, or whatever.
This option would be an awesome perk, or add-on.
For $x more add the Adventure's tokens to the subscription.
For some reason I have it in my head on a subscription plan to conincide with the AP release. Whatever version of the tokens (sitcker, cardstock, etc) have the monsters to cover the encounters in the AP, and then some "classic" AP monsters/NPCs or just bestiary fills for the remainder. This way it's a desirable product for all player types not just the AP subscribers/buyers.
And since this would go out to FLGS's it would be able to give players a more cost effective option, or more bang for the buck (i.e. more then five monsters per pack) then WotC minis.
I'm not a miniatures guy, either. So I just bought these on clearance. They have several different sets still.
I'd like to see something similar for APs. Say, one sheet per issue.
I'm not a miniatures guy, either. So I just bought these on clearance. They have several different sets still.
I'd like to see something similar for APs. Say, one sheet per issue.
And with the great new art that Pathfinder has been implementing!
Pre-printed color tokens on cardstock = win.
+1
Hope Paizo can do this one day. Great Ideas here.
I hope this idea for AP counters will get some serious consideration.
I hope this idea for AP counters will get some serious consideration.
I'm hoping since they haven't swooped in on this thread with "Not possible" hammer. They're looking at the effectivenees/cost of this product.
CEO
|
I hope this idea for AP counters will get some serious consideration.I'm hoping since they haven't swooped in on this thread with "Not possible" hammer. They're looking at the effectivenees/cost of this product.
Swooping in. We'll take a look at this. We are always looking at other GameMastery options and this might make sense.
<puts away her Not Possible Hammer +5 for now>
-Lisa
|
|
I can't say anything for tokens, but I can tell you that a full set of Pathfinder Paper Minis will be coming out for each Kingmaker AP. And the first set will be MASSIVE, with over 40 figures.
The only issue with these is that they do not use the great art from the APs / Bestiaries etc that people are talking about. The paper minis have a more 'cartoon' like look, which while certainly done well, are not quite the serious look I think many people are looking for, if that makes sense.
Nothing in any way against the product - it's just that this style of art is not something anyone I know or game with would be interested in using at the game table.
If you could do either the flat cardstock tokens discussed earlier OR paper minis of some kind, to more or less 'replace' actual metal and plastic minins at the game table, I think you would have to use all that great, professional, realistic art from the APs.
Swooping in. We'll take a look at this. We are always looking at other GameMastery options and this might make sense.
<puts away her Not Possible Hammer +5 for now>
-Lisa
Hurray!!!!! Now we can all go back to our daily lives.
|
Contributor
|
The only issue with these is that they do not use the great art from the APs / Bestiaries etc that people are talking about. The paper minis have a more 'cartoon' like look, which while certainly done well, are not quite the serious look I think many people are looking for, if that makes sense.
Nothing in any way against the product - it's just that this style of art is not something anyone I know or game with would be interested in using at the game table.
If you could do either the flat cardstock tokens discussed earlier OR paper minis of some kind, to more or less 'replace' actual metal and plastic minins at the game table, I think you would have to use all that great, professional, realistic art from the APs.
The problem there is twofold: First, the paper minis are third-party and so do not have access to or the right to republish any of the art Paizo uses. Secondly, Paizo does not order artwork for every single monster or NPC in an adventure; the cost would make the price per AP outlandish.
The more stylized (ie 'cartoon) paper minis are used because Ashton and I can produce the stylized minis much, much faster than a realistic mini, and because the realistic minis don't actually read well when reduced to an inch in height. All that beautiful detail bleeds together.
That being said, while a token set for each AP may not be ideal right now, a Gamemastery set of more generic tokens wouldn't be a bad idea. I'll start pestering Lisa.
|
|
The only issue with these is that they do not use the great art from the APs / Bestiaries etc that people are talking about. The paper minis have a more 'cartoon' like look, which while certainly done well, are not quite the serious look I think many people are looking for, if that makes sense.
Nothing in any way against the product - it's just that this style of art is not something anyone I know or game with would be interested in using at the game table.
If you could do either the flat cardstock tokens discussed earlier OR paper minis of some kind, to more or less 'replace' actual metal and plastic minins at the game table, I think you would have to use all that great, professional, realistic art from the APs.
The problem there is twofold: First, the paper minis are third-party and so do not have access to or the right to republish any of the art Paizo uses. Secondly, Paizo does not order artwork for every single monster or NPC in an adventure; the cost would make the price per AP outlandish.
The more stylized (ie 'cartoon) paper minis are used because Ashton and I can produce the stylized minis much, much faster than a realistic mini, and because the realistic minis don't actually read well when reduced to an inch in height. All that beautiful detail bleeds together.
That being said, while a token set for each AP may not be ideal right now, a Gamemastery set of more generic tokens wouldn't be a bad idea. I'll start pestering Lisa.
I think that a GameMastery set would rock. I'm making some paper minis out of art from the Bestiary for my on home use. Something premade would make my prep time shorter would make me very happy. But I have to admit, I want standard art, not cartoon art.
I think that a GameMastery set would rock. I'm making some paper minis out of art from the Bestiary for my on home use. Something premade would make my prep time shorter would make me very happy. But I have to admit, I want standard art, not cartoon art.
I'll echo what Crystal said...a lot of details get lost at that small size. That being said, I have a stack of elven heroes waiting to be mini-ed for Ashton's line, and I'll play around and see how much is lost at the smaller size.
|
|
I think that a GameMastery set would rock. I'm making some paper minis out of art from the Bestiary for my on home use. Something premade would make my prep time shorter would make me very happy. But I have to admit, I want standard art, not cartoon art.I'll echo what Crystal said...a lot of details get lost at that small size. That being said, I have a stack of elven heroes waiting to be mini-ed for Ashton's line, and I'll play around and see how much is lost at the smaller size.
I do see your point (and Crystal's), but generally if you do tokens, you don't do the whole picture, on a 1' inch disk. You do the best feature that you can do.
Once you move to large and huge, well that's just another story.
On the other hand, maybe what I should have said I would perfer standard art rather than cartoon art, just like the tokens I got from Dungeon Magazine, but I would still be interested in tokens of either sort.
For what its worth, I'll reiterate this here. I do like the current paper minis line, however . . .
I have paper minis, and I have PDFs with counters in them, and they look great and all, but I still have to do some work to get those products into a usable form at my table.
I'm kind of a lazy GM. I would love to have a set of counters on nice cardstock that I could punch out and use and not have to plan ahead too far in order to utilize.
I'm especially interested/concerned with this issue considering the main provider of fantasy pre-painted plastic minis seems to be at a bit of a strange cross-roads regarding how the product will proceed.
|
|
Last night I sat down with the PDFs of the AP and Bestiary, as well as some prestigious use of Google images search and made a bunch of 1.25/1.25 inch square images with my art package. It wasn't difficult and took me maybe 20 minutes.
Today (as in about an hour and a half ago) I picked up some foam paper (the stuff that's about 1cm thick) with peel-n-stick backing and a circle cutter from the craft store. In about 45 minutes I was able to punch every single one of my self-made images using a scrapbooking circle punch and affix them to the foam backing which I had also cut into 1 inch circles using the circle cutter. They're not perfect, but man they're nicer than simple cardboard.
I don't know what kind of substance these could be made of, but I'd hope to retain the flexibility of putting them on a sturdier back like the foam I bought (simple cardstock or cardboard really doesn't do it for me).
While we have CEO attention too, I'll again mention that this kind of product would make me actually like/want the Adventure Path map pack, as opposed to quietly cursing under my breath that the damn subscription comes with it.
Huzzah, Lisa!
Whoa, Crystal, the mini sets are expanding.
Well, I've advocated for tokens before, but usually the threads didn't go anywhere. Maybe this thread will be different!
I'm a massive fan of Fiery Dragon's 3.x counters. I'd love to see those for PF creatures. But I can imagine why this might never come to pass.
But the token pages like we used to get in Paizo's run for Dungeon, using your own art...would be superb as an alternative. Just like you issue the map pack after the AP is finished, you could issue a Gamemastery (?) pack of tokens using the art you've already paid for. You just need to shrink it down to the appropriate sizes. I prefer square to round tokens for the 1" but beggars can't be choosers.
Just don't make the mistake of using 1" counters for Large-and bigger creatures!