Here is my situation, one of the players in my group (a Sorceror) wants to buy and use Scrolls, now - another member in the party (a Wizard) is in uproar about this. According to them, Sorcerors can only cast 'the spells on their spelllist' and his interpretation of that is those 'spells' are the spells that the Sorceror chose as his known spells.
In my eyes, since the Wizard and Sorceror both share the same spelllist, if a Sorceror for example did not have 'Burning Hands' on his 'Spells Known' list he could still cast it from a Scroll - its still on his spelllist, but the Wizard complains if its so easy for the Sorceror to gain access to Scrolls like this then it pushes their power levels higher than it already is and gimps his character more in comparison.
The situation is more elaborated as this - the Sorceror doesnt have 'Knock' or many utility spells in his 'Spells Known' list, so he wants to take mostly combat or defensive spells and bulk up on scrolls of 1st to 2nd level spells of things like 'Knock' and so forth so he can use those without giving up room for his evocation spells. The Wizard complains that if the Sorceror can do this then it makes him effectively useless since the Wizard often takes Utility spells when he prepares them. (I told him that Scrolls of higher level spells arent cheap either and plus the Sorceror has to spend money buying these whereas the Wizard in this case didnt have to if he knew the spells already)
I counter-argue by saying Scrolls cost money, and that the Sorceror can only make scrolls of spells THEY know in their own 'Spells Known' list, is this accurate?, the Sorceror tried to explain that he could make a Scroll of any spell on the Wizard/Sorceror spelllist even if he doesnt know it. I disagree, what does everyone else think?
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Here is my situation, one of the players in my group (a Sorceror) wants to buy and use Scrolls, now - another member in the party (a Wizard) is in uproar about this. According to them, Sorcerors can only cast 'the spells on their spelllist' and his interpretation of that is those 'spells' are the spells that the Sorceror chose as his known spells.
In my eyes, since the Wizard and Sorceror both share the same spelllist, if a Sorceror for example did not have 'Burning Hands' on his 'Spells Known' list he could still cast it from a Scroll - its still on his spelllist, but the Wizard complains if its so easy for the Sorceror to gain access to Scrolls like this then it pushes their power levels higher than it already is and gimps his character more in comparison.
The situation is more elaborated as this - the Sorceror doesnt have 'Knock' or many utility spells in his 'Spells Known' list, so he wants to take mostly combat or defensive spells and bulk up on scrolls of 1st to 2nd level spells of things like 'Knock' and so forth so he can use those without giving up room for his evocation spells. The Wizard complains that if the Sorceror can do this then it makes him effectively useless since the Wizard often takes Utility spells when he prepares them. (I told him that Scrolls of higher level spells arent cheap either and plus the Sorceror has to spend money buying these whereas the Wizard in this case didnt have to if he knew the spells already)
I counter-argue by saying Scrolls cost money, and that the Sorceror can only make scrolls of spells THEY know in their own 'Spells Known' list, is this accurate?, the Sorceror tried to explain that he could make a Scroll of any spell on the Wizard/Sorceror spelllist even if he doesnt know it. I disagree, what does everyone else think?
I am pretty sure that Sorcerors and Wizards alike only can make scrolls of spells they know, not just what they have access to in theory. I am sure thats right, but...
Princess,
You are correct. The wizard player is wrong. Sorcerer's can use scrolls for any spell on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list even if it's not on their spells known. Following the Wizard's logic, wizards would only be able to use scrolls of spells in their spellbook and that's clearly not a course you wish to consider (unless the wizard player proves stubborn and obdurate).
Creative Director
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The wizard is 100% wrong. If a spell is on your spell list, you can cast the spell off a scroll. The only official thing that locks you out is whether the scroll is divine or arcane... and a lot of folks even houserule that bit out (I know I do!).
But yeah... the scroll needs only to be on your spell list for you to use the scroll. Even if you're a bard, you can use those scrolls.
Since a sorcerer and a wizard have an identical spell list and share it, sorcerers and wizards can use any of them. In fact, there's only one or two Wizard Only spells (the spells that let you manipulate prepared spell slots).
And yes... you can only CREATE spell scrolls from spells you know.
But your group's sorcerer can freely buy all the scrolls he wants. In fact, that's a VERY common tactic for sorcerers BECAUSE they're limited in the spells they can cast... scrolls (and to a lesser extent wands) are how they diversify.
Interesting...
Can a 1st level Wizard cast a Knock spell using a scroll? Yes.
Is it on the Wizards spell list? No.
I would say the player of the wizard PC is wrong.
Thanks everyone for clearing that up, glad I made the right call there.
Remember that the Sorcerer still has to have or emulate the requisite Int score to use a Wizard made scroll - which should be more plentiful and cheaper.
Scrolls made by Sorcerors are more expensive to make that is true, but since Wizards can share their scrolls with a Sorceror since its still Arcane in nature (even a Bard can share their scrolls as long as the spell in question also appears in the Wizard/Sorceror spellist).
The only problem would come from the requisite caster level's, since Sorcerors gain access to higher level spells a little later than a Wizard, so thats where this extra cost comes from if they make/buy them from a Sorceror, but it wouldnt stop a Sorceror from using the Wizards scroll and vice versa.
Remember that the Sorcerer still has to have or emulate the requisite Int score to use a Wizard made scroll - which should be more plentiful and cheaper.No he doesn't. It's on his spell list, he can cast it. It's that simple.
From D20PFSRD:
Activate the Spell: Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.
•The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his class.)
•The user must have the spell on her class list.
•The user must have the requisite ability score.
If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell's caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell's caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll's caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers. Activating a scroll is a standard action (or the spell's casting time, whichever is longer) and it provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.
Where does it say you don't have to meet prereq's to use?
It doesnt say you dont need the right requisite - only that you DO need the right requisite for your character to be able to cast that spell. If a Wizard with INT 15 made a 'Fireball' scroll then a Sorceror with CHA 13 (required minimum to cast 3rd level spells) could use that scroll since they meet their own prequisites to use the spell.
The way I read it, an Intelligence 18 Wizard and Charisma 18 Sorceror can both cast 8th level spells regardless of which one of them wrote the scroll in question, but the costs to buy and make a scroll for each of them are different since Sorcerors gain access to higher level spells later than a Wizard does. (Sorcerors gain 3rd level spells at LV6 for example which becomes their minimum for making 3rd Lv Scrolls and Wizards gain 3rd level spells at Lv5 AND they get the Scribe Scroll feat for free)
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Creative Director
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Tracking what kind of spellcaster created a scroll is WAY too much minutiae, I say. It's bad enough that the RAW makes you track if a scroll is divine or arcane (I tried to get that fiddly rule removed but no dice).
I've always simply run with letting spellcasters cast spells off scrolls assuming that their class is the one in question. Doesn't matter WHO wrote the scroll to me.
Tracking what kind of spellcaster created a scroll is WAY too much minutiae, I say. It's bad enough that the RAW makes you track if a scroll is divine or arcane (I tried to get that fiddly rule removed but no dice).
I've always simply run with letting spellcasters cast spells off scrolls assuming that their class is the one in question. Doesn't matter WHO wrote the scroll to me.
Sure it's one more thing to keep track of, but for the Sorc/Wiz scrolls, it's covered in the cost.
But if it's supposed to be 18 Int to put it on the scroll and 18 Int or 18 Cha to cast it from the scroll, just let me know and I'll roll with it.
From D20PFSRD, Use Magic Device skill:
Emulate an Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you're emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don't need to make this check.
Seems to say it all right there, doesn't it?
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From D20PFSRD, Use Magic device skill:
Emulate an Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you're emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don't need to make this check.Seems to say it all right there, doesn't it?
Yes. If a spell is one a sorcerer can cast, it's a sorcerer spell. Doesn't matter who put it on the scroll.
From D20PFSRD, Use Magic Device skill:
Emulate an Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you're emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don't need to make this check.Seems to say it all right there, doesn't it?
You got an official answer. How much more, exactly, do you want?
Has it occurred to your wizard that this is a potential source of revenue for him? He can scribe scrolls for cheap, sell them to the sorcerer at a profit, and then he doesn't have to memorize the spells himself. He wins all around.
Yes. If a spell is one a sorcerer can cast, it's a sorcerer spell. Doesn't matter who put it on the scroll.From D20PFSRD, Use Magic device skill:
Emulate an Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you're emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don't need to make this check.Seems to say it all right there, doesn't it?
Then there is no such thing as a Wizard spell or a Sorcerer spell, they're the same thing. Why the distinction in the description for how to activate them?
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Then there is no such thing as a Wizard spell or a Sorcerer spell, they're the same thing. Why the distinction in the description for how to activate them?Yes. If a spell is one a sorcerer can cast, it's a sorcerer spell. Doesn't matter who put it on the scroll.From D20PFSRD, Use Magic device skill:
Emulate an Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you're emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don't need to make this check.Seems to say it all right there, doesn't it?
Because they use different casting attributes. If you are casting as a Wizard, you need Intelligence equal to 10+spell level. If you're a sorcerer, you need Charisma equal to 10+spell level. Saying Sorcerer/Wizard both times is a waste of space.
You got an official answer. How much more, exactly, do you want?
I've seen JJ deliver much more authoritative rulings than that. 'I've run' and 'to me' are not the hallmarks of 'this is the rule', more along the lines of 'in my campaign'.
Edit: And I'm fine with it being ruled that way, but I think the appropriate rules sources should at least be referenced.
Really it has interesting implications for what a scroll actually is, which in turn reverberates throughout the whole magic system.
It's not a bug, it's a feature!
Sorcerors and Wizards share ALL the same spells, it doesnt matter what the spell is as long as both of them have their own requisite ability score required for the spell.
If for some reason a Wizard has Intelligence 15 and Charisma 14, and he obtains a scroll from a Sorceror lets say of 'Knock', he could use that (albeit the Sorceror's costs for making the scroll is greater since they obtain higher level spells one level later than a Wizard) as long as he has the right Intelligence score to do so, even though a Sorceror made it.
Switch circumstances around, the Sorceror could use the scroll since they have the requisite ability score to cast the spell (which appears on their spelllist) in the first place.
Scrolls do not carry any other tags other than Arcane or Divine on them, nowhere does it say a Scroll is predominantly a Wizard only scroll or vice versa, only that an Arcane scroll can be used by an Arcane Spellcaster as long as the spells on the list.
Use Magic Device is for Rogues or characters trying to use scrolls and items that arent designed for their class (a Wizard trying to use a Divine Scroll for example), its never used for the purposes of casting a spell thats already on your spelllist.
Really it has interesting implications for what a scroll actually is, which in turn reverberates throughout the whole magic system.
It's not a bug, it's a feature!
And Sorcerers cannot compete with Wizards in a free market for scribing scrolls at all. There's no market for 'same s**t, more expensive'.
Unless of course the resident Wizards are being tight...lol, and dont want to share their magic with the unwashed masses. But in any generic setting that isnt the case of course, so yes, people would rather buy the Wizards scroll - that being said theres nothing to stop a Sorceror from competeing with a wizard by charging less for his scrolls (he pays more to make it without a doubt) he would just make less profit than the wizard for the same thing.
Theres nothing to say all Sorcerors have to charge the Core Rulebook listed amounts - it just assumes all Sorcerors want to make the same percentage of profit that Wizards enjoy but that doesnt have to be the case in a marketplace type enviroment. They could make the same scroll for less profit - but its profit all the same.
Unless of course the resident Wizards are being tight...lol, and dont want to share their magic with the unwashed masses. But in any generic setting that isnt the case of course, so yes, people would rather buy the Wizards scroll - that being said theres nothing to stop a Sorceror from competeing with a wizard by charging less for his scrolls (he pays more to make it without a doubt) he would just make less profit than the wizard for the same thing.
Theres nothing to say all Sorcerors have to charge the Core Rulebook listed amounts - it just assumes all Sorcerors want to make the same percentage of profit that Wizards enjoy but that doesnt have to be the case in a marketplace type enviroment. They could make the same scroll for less profit - but its profit all the same.
Simple economics, the Wizard can also cut price until the Sorcerer is out of business.
Sure the Wizard could do that - but then hes being awfully attentive of the marketplace situation. I never said a Sorceror could undercut a Wizard, but match his prices. If any given Wizard wants to undercut the competition he shouldnt bother - a Sorceror cant make scrolls of spells that he didnt take on his Spells Known list, whereas a Wizard has a bigger variety to choose from.
And ontop of that, at the end of the day...a Wizard who wants to begrudge a Sorceror from selling a handful of scrolls picked from a limited selection isnt going to win any friends now.
But in a party-based situation where the Wizard and the Sorceror work side by side, who cares where the scrolls come from?, as long as they have them.
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Can I address another problem I'm seeing here? It seems to me that the wizard in your group is a *cuss* who does not want to share...so the Sorcerer might have more power (an argument I don't recognize) so? Doesn't that help everyone in the group? What did this whiner do, threaten to quit if s/he didn't get compensated for this 'power-gap'?
This strikes pretty close to home with me, as I have a player who continually pouts when he believes another player has more power than him.
It's bad enough that the RAW makes you track if a scroll is divine or arcane (I tried to get that fiddly rule removed but no dice).
How does one know if it is divine or arcane? I am currently playing a bard and this came up not too long ago. Under RAW it says . "Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells." Yet bards have Cure Light Wounds (a divine spell) on their spell list. This is confusing, not sure what the right call is.
I'd say a bard would have to use UMD to use the Cure Light Wounds Scroll, but not entirely positive.
Can I address another problem I'm seeing here? It seems to me that the wizard in your group is a *cuss* who does not want to share...so the Sorcerer might have more power (an argument I don't recognize) so? Doesn't that help everyone in the group? What did this whiner do, threaten to quit if s/he didn't get compensated for this 'power-gap'?
This strikes pretty close to home with me, as I have a player who continually pouts when he believes another player has more power than him.
Pretty much...he wants to monopolise the Arcane Spell side of things, he scarcely if ever bothers to use damaging spells and tends to favor spells to protect his hide and to put summoned bodies in the way. He likes to think the party 'need' him for 'Knock' spells and suchlike and blew a gasket when the party Sorceror brought some scrolls along with utility spells on them (Levitate, Knock, etc).
The Sorceror was of the opinion he wanted the Wizard to pitch in a bit more on a fight rather than to spend 2-3 rounds buffing himself out (sometimes the fight would be over by the time he was ready to bother doing anything after buffing up). So the use of scrolls would mean the Wizard could focus more on chucking out some Magic Missiles and suchlike to help out.
But as it turns out...No Dice. He claimed up and down the wording of 'spellist' means 'Spells Known' in his interpretation and the Sorceror could not cast these spells. He felt this was his territory and would not have someone encroaching on what he felt was his 'niche'.
The arguement ensued, 'spelllist' as I told him meant he and the sorceror have the same access to the same spells (theyre on the same list) so they can cast the spells as long as they have the neccisary ability score, etc.
That didnt sit well with the Wizard, he began to throw a strop, every time the Sorceror used a scroll of 'Knock' or something he'd stand back and refuse to do anything. Pretty soon he didnt bother using 'Identify' on the party's items and suggested "Let HIM do it since he can do everything I can anyway" (well a scroll of 'Identify' would cost alot more given the 50Gp material component).
The party really didnt care for the Wizards bellyaching, this was a good thing for the party to have two spellcasters with a diverse selection of spells, one of whom was more dedicated to blasting his foes and the other had access to handy and/or tricky spells that might not have applications frequently.
Sure he wanted compensated to, whenever he did cast a spell that was for the benefit of the party, he made a big deal out of it. Often threatened to 'kill off' his character since Sorcerors were 'broken' he claimed, given that I was letting them cast spells from scrolls that wasnt on their Spells Known list...but thats what they CAN do, its legal, as long as they meet the prequisites.
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above post
Wow, sounds like we have the same damn player. Me and mine just started ignoring our *cuss* player (after three years of not) and he doesn't do much of anything nowadays; just a warm body to play the cleric. I have equated the player's need to be the most powerful because he has a perceived lack of control and power in his own life. I am always afraid of what would happen if this person ever had a very bad day; a perceived lack of control is what rapists have. Scary stuff.
Wow. Threatening to kill his own character. Classic.
I'm sure he avoid Pearls of Power and Bonded Items as well,
since those would be detracting from the Sorceror's thunder.
Anyway, I do think the wording on Scroll Use could be cleared up:
Table: Scrolls gives sample prices for scrolls created at the lowest possible caster level for each spellcasting class. Note that some spells appear at different levels for different casters. The level of such spells depends on the caster scribing the scroll.
This isn't revisited later, so it isn't clear if this line ONLY applies to the costing of the scroll (which is the context here). For example, a Bard activating a Wizard's scroll which is a higher level spell for Wizards than Bards automatically is able to use it because it is on the Bard spell list. But does he treat the Spell Level of the Spell (for DC purposes as well as Globe of Invulnerability, etc) as it is listed on the Bard Spell List, or as it is on the Wizard/Sorceror list (which determined the cost of the scroll). The first option (Spell Level on the List you are using) seems logical and fair, but I don't see this directly addressed anywhere...? If a Bard WANTS to cast it using the Sorceror Spell List BECAUSE it would yield a higher Spell Level and DC, would they need to actually roll a UMD check because that Spell at that Spell Level is not on their own Class Spell List? (of course, sharing CHA Casting Stat with Sorcerors is somewhat convenient here) On the flip side, Wizards/Sorcerors buying Bard-scribed Scrolls for cheap and then using the higher Spell Level for their own list would almost be too good....???? I suppose be default it WOULD apply for all purposes, but it seems like the 'other end of things' should be at least mentioned in connection with this.
To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you're emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don't need to make this check.
The bolded part is pretty misleading, given there isn't supposed to be a difference between wizard spells and sorceror spells (bar special exceptions).
* The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his class.)
* The user must have the spell on her class list.
* The user must have the requisite ability score.If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell's caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check.
This is the clearest section, but the way this information is repeated (but with different wording) and split up doesn't help for clarity. Alot of space could be saved by removing repeating information and re-organizing everything to be clearer.
Tracking what kind of spellcaster created a scroll is WAY too much minutiae, I say. It's bad enough that the RAW makes you track if a scroll is divine or arcane (I tried to get that fiddly rule removed but no dice).
I've always simply run with letting spellcasters cast spells off scrolls assuming that their class is the one in question. Doesn't matter WHO wrote the scroll to me.
I have noticed a lot of adventure paths dont say which whether its divine or arcane when the spell is on both lists. If nobody* is using the rule anyway we might as well get rid of it. I know its Jason's call, but it is another point to run by him.
*I am sure someone uses the rule, but I think its a very small minority.
Thanks for your input everyone, I appreciate it, and I do think the clarification needs to be made, Arcane is Arcane and Divine is Divine, dividing these groups into smaller subgroups of types of spellcaster would only complicate a simple magic item.
And as for the Wizard player, he decided to jack that in once his character died a somewhat meaningful death. Unable to retrieve his body, the party had to flee a somewhat angry Storm Giant who almost buried the characters under a mountain of rubble.
His next character I am glad to say, is more team-spirited, he chose to aim for the fighter role this time - a Dwarven Spiked-Armor Fighter/Barbarian specialist who invested alot into Grappling, as well as items and such from the Magic Item Compendium to improve his grapple bonuses to CMB. Needless to say, the party Rogue is estatic with his new melee buddy and the player seems to have mended his ways (for now it seems).
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It's bad enough that the RAW makes you track if a scroll is divine or arcane (I tried to get that fiddly rule removed but no dice).How does one know if it is divine or arcane? I am currently playing a bard and this came up not too long ago. Under RAW it says . "Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells." Yet bards have Cure Light Wounds (a divine spell) on their spell list. This is confusing, not sure what the right call is.
I'd say a bard would have to use UMD to use the Cure Light Wounds Scroll, but not entirely positive.
the bard has the spell on its spell list, so when your bard casts the spell cure light wounds, it is arcane.
Both bards and clerics upon taking the feat, can scribe. and they do.Simply ask the gm to clarify, if the particular scroll is divine or arcane, as the scroll could be either. arcane if made by bards, divine from clerics and all other divine casters.
UMD will need to be used by your bard, if the scroll is divine.
But make sure its divine, before you limit yourself without the need to do so.
This is a complicated area that I handwave away as GM, however it gets more complicated when you cant handwave things around, say for organized gameplay per Pathfinder Society.
This is a complicated area that I handwave away as GM, however it gets more complicated when you cant handwave things around, say for organized gameplay per Pathfinder Society.
I agree wholeheartedly. Thus the question. Houseruling is great, but for organized gameplay doesn't really work. I guess I'll add another question over on the PFS boards. It seems like I've been asking a lot of questions over there the last month or so. Thanks samerandomhero, and I hope to see you at Olympic Cards and Comics on the 27th!!!
Thank you everyone and thank you James for sharing your input on this, I always did find the class associations with Scrolls to be confusing, Arcane scrolls can be used by any arcane spell using class as long as THAT spell shows on that classes spell-list, the same goes for Divine spells as well.
Bards fill a sort of grey area with spells like Cure Light Wounds on their lists - even though the spell is Arcane in nature for them it CANNOT be copied to a Wizards spellbook for example since it isnt on the Wizard/Sorceror spelllists.
Use Magic Device should never really apply for spellcasters to the use of Scrolls (unless your casting a Divine Spell if your an Arcane Spellcaster)- as long as you have the requisite ability score to cast it relevant to your own class and the neccisary level you dont need to roll - otherwise you have to roll a caster level check as it states so under the Scrolls magic item entry and with that comes a chance of a mishap if the character fails this test.
That and specifically under Use Magic Device it states that activating a scroll is DC 20 + Spell Level, you do NOT have to emulate an ability score to use a Scroll in this case and you do NOT have to make the caster level check with it. (Though a failed attempt could very well cause a mishap to occur).
Nowhere there does it say a Wizard cannot use a Sorceror scroll freely and vice versa - the only real distinctions between those two is that the Sorceror gets his spells at a higher level than a Wizard, and that adds something to the cost of making / selling the scrolls which makes them more expensive than a Wizards version.
That being said, the Sorceror in my group doesnt really make them for himself - he buys them, and Wands as well. Sure the Wizard could make some scrolls and sell them to him for profit (if he was still alive) but if the scrolls are for the party's benefit then it should come out of the partys petty cash/funds. But as it stands, the party Sorceror buys as many scrolls and Wands as he needs, as well as other charged items with daily uses and so on.
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Sorry for coming late to the thread.
Then there is no such thing as a Wizard spell or a Sorcerer spell, they're the same thing. Why the distinction in the description for how to activate them?Yes. If a spell is one a sorcerer can cast, it's a sorcerer spell. Doesn't matter who put it on the scroll.From D20PFSRD, Use Magic device skill:
Emulate an Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you're emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don't need to make this check.Seems to say it all right there, doesn't it?
I think there is a distinction in the skill description so that you can pick which stat to try and emulate. For example, it is likely much easier for a Bard to try casting a Sorc/Wiz scroll as a sorcerer then as a wizard.
The way I always viewed it (and this may just be my house-ruling), you need a spell-casting stat high enough to cast the spell. Which stat that is is based on which class you are trying to emulate. For example, while the above mentions Wis for divine spells, I would allow emulation of Cha to cast the spell as an Oracle.