Fake Healer's post (fourth one down) in this thread reminded me that I had been meaning to start a thread about poisonous animals.
Though I also found it convenient to have pre-statted zombies and other creatures of various sizes, I can handle having to advance them myselves without too much problem.
However, for the poisonous creatures that typically are encountered in a wide range of sizes (i.e. centipedes, scorpions, snakes, spiders, and probably some more that I forgot), I found that the little cheat sheet advancement chart in the monster's entry is insufficient because it doesn't address the creatures' signature ability...it's poison. It would be very helpful to have some better guidelines about these guys. The DCs I guess can be calculated closely enough using the monster creation guidelines, but it's not clear to me on if the poison damage is supposed to change, and if so, by how much, as you advance the creature.
I think the Bestiary is great, but to me, this seemed like the most glaring omission.
Fake Healer's post (fourth one down) in this thread reminded me that I had been meaning to start a thread about poisonous animals.
Though I also found it convenient to have pre-statted zombies and other creatures of various sizes, I can handle having to advance them myselves without too much problem.
However, for the poisonous creatures that typically are encountered in a wide range of sizes (i.e. centipedes, scorpions, snakes, spiders, and probably some more that I forgot), I found that the little cheat sheet advancement chart in the monster's entry is insufficient because it doesn't address the creatures' signature ability...it's poison. It would be very helpful to have some better guidelines about these guys. The DCs I guess can be calculated closely enough using the monster creation guidelines, but it's not clear to me on if the poison damage is supposed to change, and if so, by how much, as you advance the creature.
I think the Bestiary is great, but to me, this seemed like the most glaring omission.
Personally, I would just treat each poison attack as having extra doses. For example, if a medium monster injected 1 dose of injury poison with its bite attack, then it makes sense that a large monster of the same type would inject twice that much (2 doses for +2 DC and +50% duration). Just double it with each size category so that a gargantuan creature of the same type would inject the equivalent of 8 doses (or +16 DC & +400% duration).
The damage/penalty would be the same, but it would be far more tenacious.
Most monsters will have "This DC is (attribute) based", usually Constitution. As the creatures' (attribute) rises so does the DC.
For example: we have a small snake that had a poison DC of 13 and the poison is Constitution based. We then advance the snake to medium size which give the now medium snake +2 con the new creature now has a poison DC of 14.
I would advance the DC by 1/2 of any additional HD added as well, as base poison DCs are generally calculated as 10 plus 1/2 racial HD plus CON adjustment.
Most monsters will have "This DC is (attribute) based", usually Constitution. As the creatures' (attribute) rises so does the DC.
For example: we have a small snake that had a poison DC of 13 and the poison is Constitution based. We then advance the snake to medium size which give the now medium snake +2 con the new creature now has a poison DC of 14.
Huh. I totally forgot about that. yeah, that's probably much more balanced. Don't forget though that it is based off of hit dice AND the ability score.
A large venomous snake with 5 HD and 14 Con will have a poison DC of 14. A huge venemous snake with 10 HD and 24 Con will have a poison DC of 22.
EDIT: Ninja'd.
The DCs are not the main issue, the damage is.
The DCs are not the main issue, the damage is.
In the monster manual the damage doesn't change just because they get bigger. It stays exactly the same, the only thing that changes is the DC of the poison (it's the same stuff just harder to resist).
If you have the bestiary (I'm assuming you don't since you would already know what I'm about to say) they have the poison DC's for larger versions of each of the poisonous monsters listed in small charts near the original entry for the monster.
If you have the bestiary (I'm assuming you don't since you would already know what I'm about to say) they have the poison DC's for larger versions of each of the poisonous monsters listed in small charts near the original entry for the monster.
I do but it doesn't (have the DCs in those charts).
Nonetheless, DCs can be calculated reasonably enough as discussed above, the damage was my concern but I guess I should have checked the precedent in the Monster Manual, that's good to know...though it still would have been better if this was actually stated, for those that didn't come over from a history with 3.5.
I think viper snakes in the 3.5 monster manual are the only poisonous monster (that explicitly comes in multiple sizes) that does not have its poison damage very by size. All of the giant vermin poisons inflict more poison damage as well as increase the DC as they get larger.
I think viper snakes in the 3.5 monster manual are the only poisonous monster (that explicitly comes in multiple sizes) that does not have its poison damage very by size. All of the giant vermin poisons inflict more poison damage as well as increase the DC as they get larger.
Yes, you are correct, apparently Abraham was mistaken.
It definitely seems like this was an oversight (or a poor choice for an omission) in the Bestiary as far as I am concerned.
An Omission? Snakes are the only creatures in this book that do exist in real life. The poison doesn't get stronger as the snake get's bigger. Also let's be clear, there is a big difference between a giant (something) and a (something) swarm. Those poisons are going to be different because you're dealing with one big bite vs multiple bites.
it is true that snake venom doesn't get stronger with size in the real world, but there are a lot of different types of poisonous snakes, some with stronger and some with weaker venom. While few people bitten by rattlesnakes actually die from it (and thus the poison damage in the bestiary or MM might actually model that pretty well) people bitten by a king cobra will always die unless they can be treated with an anti-venom very quickly (assuming that it is a good bite that injects poison, a cobra's poison fangs are located toward the back of the mouth).