Okay this is ridiculous but my rule lawyering players actually had to discuss it.
So we were talking about the fact that you can drink a potion as a move action. Fine. Retrieving a potion out of your belt pouch or backpack is a move action as well. Fine.
Drinking a potion in battle takes two move equivalent actions, so a full round is wasted.
Now we also discussed is that if you have the item handy, like a sword you just need to sheath, or a potion in a bandoleer you could drink a potion as a move equivalent action if you have at least a +1 BAB and move in the same round, just like with weapons.
Then we started discussing if you need to have free hands while drinking a potion in combat. It seemed obvious to me but they said if I ask the character to sheath the weapon to use his free hand to look for a potion, it will take 2 rounds to complete the move.
1) move -> sheath weapon, move -> retrieve the potion
2) move -> drink potion, move -> draw weapon (or move and draw weapon)
I think that you have to do this only if you're using two weapon, or you grip a large shield since you need a free hand, and if you only have a weapon you could just do that in one round using the other free hand
1) move -> retrieve potion, move -> drink potion (using thumb to pop the cork)
but in their opinion, playing things this way would penalize too much fighters with large shields or two weapon fighters. They will take twice the time to drink potion AND they could not threaten any areas while the weapon is sheathed AND they would be provoking attacks of opportunity when they draw the weapon again (these last two penalties do not apply if using two weapons of course).
How do you see it? I don't think it's a matter of balance, but of good sense. Maybe the rules do not mention it explicitly but I guess it's obvious that you need a free hand to retrieve an item or drink a potion.
First off, drinking a potion is a Standard Action, not a move action, and it provokes an attack of opportunity, period.
Second, instead of sheathing the weapon, they could just drop it, which is a free action.
As for the free hand thing, I looked at the Potion section and the Combat section and couldn't find anything that explicitly states that you need a free hand, but I would say that you do. As for penalizing two-weapon fighters and shield fighters because of this, think of it this way: They get either a second (or third, or even fourth, depending on their feats) attack or a bonus to AC for having said second item in hand. By their same logic that a two-weapon/shield fighter is penalized because they need a free hand, then the single handed fighter is penalized because they don't get the second attack or AC bonus. It's a choice they made. They chose NOT to have a free hand in exchange for extra attacks or AC.
Right, standard action to quaff a potion. (Unless you've got that Cheliax trait).
Also, no attack of opportunity for drawing a weapon.
I generally make it a standard action to quaff a potion, period, if it is readily available. I don't micromanage availability, but generally limit it to 10 items (potions, scrolls, wands).
With the ruling for swapping weapons with the light shield hand as "not an action", you don't need to drop a weapon to use a potion. Simply put two weapons in one hand (no action), draw the potion (typically move action), drink the potion (standard action), and move the weapon back (no action).
You're not *wielding* the weapons when they're both in one hand (so technically someone could ready an action to move by you when you move your weapons to one hand and avoid an attack of opportunity), but that's unlikely to be a worse deal than dropping or sheathing your weapon.
on a side note you can hold a 2hnd-weapon in 1 one hand, even switching it to your off hand. you can also hold a 2handed weapon in your off hand with a small and medium shield (you lose your ac bonus however). your not considered armed however but it saves you some actions. If monkey grip was allowed you could attack with and be armed with an off-handed 2handed weapon but you would incur the normal penalties to hit. i think there might be a penalty wielding a weapon while armed with a shield too but i can't remember.
First off, I agree with Chris R.
Secondly, "Beek Gwenders of Croodle" has got to be the coolest name on the entire board.
Not to threadjack, but as a quick aside, Beek Gwenders of Croodle was my favorite of the pre-generated PCs in the back of the Against the Giants mods, and I statted him out here for 3.5 ed, along with a bunch of other Greyhawk NPCs here , for anyone who might be interested.
I always preferred Redmod Dumple my self
I can hold more then one thing in one of my hands, but maybe I'm just special ;p
I always preferred Redmod Dumple my self
I statted him up too! LOL! And Fonkin Hoddypeak, Gleep Wurp the Eye-Biter, etc. See link on my previous post ...
First off, drinking a potion is a Standard Action, not a move action, and it provokes an attack of opportunity, period.
Yes you're right, I was writing from work and didn't have the books in front of me. I think the problem more or less remains, though.
Even if it's not clear what "stored item" means, I assume items like potions o wands that are conveniently stored in a belt pouch or in a bandoleer could be picked as a free action.Always playing RAW, I guess you could just drink a potion as a standard action then, even if you have a readied shield and drawn weapon. Sigh.
First off, drinking a potion is a Standard Action, not a move action, and it provokes an attack of opportunity, period.
Yes you're right, I was writing from work and didn't have the books in front of me. I think the problem more or less remains, though.
Even if it's not clear what "stored item" means, I assume items like potions o wands that are conveniently stored in a belt pouch or in a bandoleer could be picked as a free action.
Always playing RAW, I guess you could just drink a potion as a standard action then, even if you have a readied shield and drawn weapon. Sigh.
I'm not sure you can retrieve anything, no matter how readily available, as a free action, with the exception of a weapon (and ONLY a weapon, IIRC) if you have the Quick Draw feat, but I don't have book in front of me ATM ...
Maybe a generous GM would allow a PC to tuck a weapon or other item under one arm as a free action, freeing up a hand to retrieve a potion as a move action ...
I'm not sure you can retrieve anything, no matter how readily available, as a free action, with the exception of a weapon (and ONLY a weapon, IIRC) if you have the Quick Draw feat, but I don't have book in front of me ATM ...
You are correct. The free action retrieval of a readily available item when you have a +1 or better BAB is only available in combination with a regular move. And the Quick Draw feat specifically does not apply to potions, scrolls, wands, and alchemical items.
I always preferred Redmod Dumple my selfI statted him up too! LOL! And Fonkin Hoddypeak, Gleep Wurp the Eye-Biter, etc. See link on my previous post ...
I am familiar with your conversions, great work!
However I am restatting them all with PFRPG rules adhehering exactly to the equipment and stats described in the original adventure. I will also do a second conversion for the same characters but 20-25 years later (we're playing in the mid-590's). The second stats will reflect the new age (humans will be old or mature) and improved experience and items they found in the adventure.
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You can always drop whatever's in your hand as a free action and retrieve/chug the potion in one round.
That said, I equip all of my characters with a specially-designed Camelbak-style hydration-system full of cure-serious-wounds potion. Also viable are 'beer-helmet' systems filled with healing potions.
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Hopefully the Pathfinder Companion: Adventurer's Armory will give some mundane equipment that helps in some of these respects... things on the order of the FRCS's Potion Belts and Bandoliers.
As a houserule, my table deems Wands and Rods to be weaponlike objects and thus eligible for Quick Draw and the +1 BAB part of move action draw.
--Kid Vrock!
Hopefully the Pathfinder Companion: Adventurer's Armory will give some mundane equipment that helps in some of these respects... things on the order of the FRCS's Potion Belts and Bandoliers.
As a houserule, my table deems Wands and Rods to be weaponlike objects and thus eligible for Quick Draw and the +1 BAB part of move action draw.
--Kid Vrock!
Wands and rods can already use the +1 BAB part of a move draw as long as you keep them 'in easy reach'. I'd take 'in easy reach' to mean not stored in a bag, hole, or haversack.
Or, if they have a few extra gold, they could have a leather throng secured to the inside of their forearm that they can unstopper with their teeth as a move action that would likely incur an attack of opportunity. So, it's not likely something they would want to do within the baddies' range.
But I don't know of any such item in Pathfinder or D&D, but I see no logical reason why you couldn't have such an item.
I am familiar with your conversions, great work!
Thanks! :)
However I am restatting them all with PFRPG rules adhehering exactly to the equipment and stats described in the original adventure. I will also do a second conversion for the same characters but 20-25 years later (we're playing in the mid-590's). The second stats will reflect the new age (humans will be old or mature) and improved experience and items they found in the adventure.
Interesting, you should post them under Conversions. I began playing D&D back in the '80s, and have always loved Greyhawk and all the lore associated with it. :)
ITEM IDEA: Swordbottle.
You can pour a potion into the hilt of this sword!
ITEM IDEA: Swordbottle.
You can pour a potion into the hilt of this sword!
Heh, had a GM do this once. We were up against an evil cleric, and on the first round I won initiative and hit him with Bestow Curse. Rolled a 20, which the Gm ruled was a crit (I argued it wasn't, but he was convinced it was), thus bringing the -6 to wisdom drain to -12, annihilating his spellcasting ability. On his turn the cleric unscrews the bottom of his sickle, which is revealed to be a potion container, and drinks it. Think it had Tenser's Transformation in it, or maybe some sort of buff the GM made up on the spot to try to make the fight at least a little challenging.