Detect magic and supernatural abilities

[iuzite]

i know detect magic spell has been the subject of debate, but as far as i've searched there's no official ruling or a consensus about this question:

does detect magic reveal ongoing supernatural abilities (that mimic spells)?

or is there?

[iuzite]

bump?

[Freddy Honeycutt]

Not sure on that one. I hope you get something (although I would not hold my breath or bump for something official)

Back in the day it used to be called "innate magic" so I would say yes, but who knows now...

DM should be able to adjudicate this if it isn't clear. Since I have a rule against looking things up at the table, I generally go with an answer (in this case yes) and then assign a penalty to the check (to reflect my uncertainty).

Then research the question after the game....
If it worked that one time when it should not have I am fine
If it worked but not as well, maybe there was magic in the air
Either way the game goes on...

[iuzite]

yeah, i did more or less the same thing as you did. one of my players used detect magic, but since the effect in question was supernatural, i said there is none to be detected. but now, i feel i gotta figure if that decision was right or wrong.

reading the description of supernatural abilities, there are things that make me think it should register as magical, and things that do the opposite.

Supernatural abilities are magical... --so it's magical?

...but not spell-like. --so it is not magical?

Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). --so it's magical?

A supernatural ability's effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells. -- so it is not magical?

my guts says it shouldn't be detected but i can't be certain.

[azhrei_fje]

Well, look at how it affects the game when taken each way.

If the supernatural ability is magical, does that mean that the creature itself will always detect as magical? Or perhaps the magic isn't there until the effect manifests? In which case the creature is never magical yet the results of its (Su) ability is?

I would go with detect magic cannot detect the creature itself, but it can detect the results of the use of the ability.

Once you've decided how it should work, come up with an in-game theory to explain it. And remember: you don't need to explain it to the players (unless they want to pay money to an expensive sage in-game) because perhaps the people in the game world don't really know why or how it works either? As long as you know and it appears to be (mostly) consistent to the players, let them grumble about it when they can't figure it out but keep the game moving.

[King of Vrock]

Actually I do believe it can... take a look at the spell.

Detect Magic:

Detect Magic

School divination; Level bard 0, cleric 0, druid 0, sorcerer/wizard 0

Casting Time 1 standard action

Component: V, S

Range 60 ft.

Area cone-shaped emanation

Duration concentration, up to 1 min./level (D)

Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

You detect magical auras. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area or subject.

1st Round: Presence or absence of magical auras.

2nd Round: Number of different magical auras and the power of the most potent aura.

3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura: DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + 1/2 caster level for a nonspell effect.) If the aura eminates from a magic item, you can attempt to identify its properties (see Spellcraft).

Magical areas, multiple types of magic, or strong local magical emanations may distort or conceal weaker auras.

Aura Strength: An aura's power depends on a spell's functioning spell level or an item's caster level; see the accompanying table. If an aura falls into more than one category, detect magic indicates the stronger of the two.

Lingering Aura: A magical aura lingers after its original source dissipates (in the case of a spell) or is destroyed (in the case of a magic item). If detect magic is cast and directed at such a location, the spell indicates an aura strength of dim (even weaker than a faint aura). How long the aura lingers at this dim level depends on its original power:

So we see the spell itself shows the formula for detecting Non-spell effects (DC 15 +1/2 caster level). You can also detect the aura of a magical area. So I would posit that supernatural abilities can leave magic auras.

For example a Dragon's Breath Weapon is a supernatural effect and I would rule that the dragons HD=CL for purposes of the aura left behind. So an Ancient Red would be an Overwhelming Aura @25HD and the aura of it's Breath Weapon would linger for 1d6 Days.

--Vrock to Mud!

[graywulfe]

King of Vrock wrote:

Actually I do believe it can... take a look at the spell.

** spoiler omitted **
So we see the spell itself shows the formula for detecting Non-spell effects (DC 15 +1/2 caster level). You can also detect the aura of a magical area. So I would posit that supernatural abilities can leave magic auras.

For example a Dragon's...

I'm trying to work this out too. If Detect Magic can detect Supernatural abilities, then Rakshasas(sp?) are alot easier to detect than I previously thought.

Graywulfe

[Edit: edited for clarity]

[Ravingdork]

This came up in a game today and I'm curious to know the answer too.

My witch tried using a slumber hex on a nearby enemy and an outsider noticed I was using magic, even though there is no discernible interaction whatsoever. He claims the character was using detect magic, but upon reading the spell I see no mention of supernatural abilities. In fact, it only seems to detect the auras of magic items and spells.

So which is it?

[Sir Ophiuchus]

From the PRD:

Quote:

Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical attacks, defenses, and qualities. These abilities can be always active or they can require a specific action to utilize. The supernatural ability's description includes information on how it is used and its effects.

Just because the effect is from a supernatural ability rather than from a spell doesn't make it any less magical.

[ZappoHisbane]

Sir Ophiuchus wrote:

From the PRD:

Quote:

Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical attacks, defenses, and qualities. These abilities can be always active or they can require a specific action to utilize. The supernatural ability's description includes information on how it is used and its effects.

Just because the effect is from a supernatural ability rather than from a spell doesn't make it any less magical.

+1

And since it's not a spell, you'd use the 15+1/2 caster level DC to determine the school of magic. Some supernatural abilities will require DM adjudication as to what school they belong to, but I think most are pretty obvious (Slumber would be Enchantment, since it's a variation on Sleep).

[Kierato]

I would say no, because Arcane sight (a more powerful version of detect magic) specifies that it can tell if a creature has spell or spell-like abilities, but not supernatural.

[Goth Guru]

I would think supernatural abilities would give a weak reading. The witch in the example would have more noticable magic items.

[Brandon Tomlinson]

Do supernatural abilities have to go through spell-resistance?

EDIT:
Forget that, found it on PHB pg 221. It's doesn't call out detect magic, but it does give a better view of precedent.

[Kierato]

Brandon Tomlinson wrote:

Do supernatural abilities have to go through spell-resistance?

No.