ok just to make sure I'm reading this right, when crafting a magic item that you have a feat for (aside from magic arms and armor), you can for example, create any item that has a caster level of 10, even if you only have a caster level of 6. The caster level of 10 is only there for the DC of the creation/identification, ect.
also when crafting magic arms and armor and the rule of 3 caster levels per +1, I take that to mean you can make a +1 weapon with a +1 special quality at 3rd level, max of +5 weapon with a +5 quality at 15th level.
I would really like to see an answer for this question. More specifically, is Caster Level a prerequisite when using craft feats or just there to set the DC?
Caster level is just to set DC, EVEN WITH Magic arms/armor. A 5th level wizard could create a +5 sword with a DC 20 spellcraft check (CL 15 +5 ).
The real limit is wealth which is controlled by the GM.
Enchanting FAQ wrote:
Crafting and Bypassing Requirements: What crafting requirements can you bypass by adding +5 to the DC of your Spellcraft check?
As presented on page 549 of the Core Rulebook, there are no limitations other than (1) you have to have the item creation feat, and (2) you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites. So racial requirements, specific spell requirements, math requirements (such as "caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus"), and so on, are all subject to the +5 DC rule.
Usual Suspect, "CL" is not a requirement (prerequisite). However if there is a comment in the requirements section of "Caster Level must be...X" that is a prerequisite that needs to be met or bypassed with a +5 to the DC.
Rats... too late to edit my post but a minor correction.
A level 5 caster would need a spellcraft 25 not 20 to make a +5 sword.
15 (caster level) +5 (standard enchanting) +5 (overcoming math requirement) = 25
Telrathel wrote: also when crafting magic arms and armor and the rule of 3 caster levels per +1, I take that to mean you can make a +1 weapon with a +1 special quality at 3rd level, max of +5 weapon with a +5 quality at 15th level.
1 check with your GM how they are doing crafting; what they say overrules any actual rules or anything from the Internet.
2 each special ability for arms or armour has its own caster level, independent of the 'plus' which must be met or overcome by the +5 to DC rule.
3 each 'plus' needs a CL of 3x, so +2 needs a 6th level crafter, or another +5 to DC.
4 there are other items that have similar level requirements, such as Bracers of Armour.
5 refer to rule 1, above. It often needs to be repeated!
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Weapons and armor have caster level requirements that can not be avoided. To craft a bonus equivalent the craftsman must be 3x bonus caster equivalent. Only continuous bonuses to caster level that last for at least the crafting duration can be applied.
The only other hard rule for crafting that can not be avoided is the requirement of possessing the metamagic feat for crafting rods.
TheGuyOverThere9888, this FAQ says otherwise.
FAQ wrote: Crafting and Bypassing Requirements: What crafting requirements can you bypass by adding +5 to the DC of your Spellcraft check?
As presented on page 549 of the Core Rulebook, there are no limitations other than (1) you have to have the item creation feat, and (2) you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites. So racial requirements, specific spell requirements, math requirements (such as "caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus"), and so on, are all subject to the +5 DC rule.
So yes, you can bypass the caster level requirement for weapons and armor. Yes, you can bypass the metamagic feat for crafting rods.
TheGuyOverThere9888 wrote: Weapons and armor have caster level requirements that can not be avoided. To craft a bonus equivalent the craftsman must be 3x bonus caster equivalent. Only continuous bonuses to caster level that last for at least the crafting duration can be applied. Incorrect as shown by Gauss in the FAQ.
TheGuyOverThere9888 wrote: The only other hard rule for crafting that can not be avoided is the requirement of possessing the metamagic feat for crafting rods. Incorrect, and from the same FAQ, when crafting potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items you must have the spell prerequisite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Although I would not consider a FAQ RAW ya'll are free to do whatever you want. Considering the evolution of magic item creation within pathfinder I'm not even sure of any claim to original intent of the rule. Although the FAQ does give magic item creation more munchkinablility that I find both fantastic and horrifying.
FAQs clarify RAW, and this one is pretty forthright about it-- and frankly, the underlying RAW (that you can ignore a pre-req for +5, unless it's the feat or a spell completion/trigger item or a metamagic rod)-- says nothing about the weapon enhancement caster level being an unavoidable pre-req.
You are free to provide rules quotes to disprove this if you believe the FAQ is going against RAW.
TheGuyOverThere9888, this was debated ad nauseam before the FAQ. There is absolutely nothing in the rules that prevents the "Caster Level must be X" requirements from being bypassed by adding +5.
People used to argue the word "must" means you cannot bypass the requirements.
The problem with that? The requirements paragraph also uses the word "must" and then says that you can bypass those "must have" requirements by adding +5 to the DC.
Magic Item creation was intended to be easy in Pathfinder. This was a design choice the Devs made at the outset. There were (probable) unintended consequences that required the Devs to reign it in a bit via the rules (guidelines) in Ultimate Campaign but that did not change the fact that the crafting DCs are supposed to be easy.
So there's three layers here. The only constant is that you must have the item creation feat. Additionally, you can replace any instance of "you" with "someone else present throughout the crafting" for the following three paragraphs.
Potions, spell completion (scroll), and spell trigger (wand and staff) require that you have the spell prepared or known. No skipping.
Wondrous items, rods, and rings require that you meet the requirements or take +5 to the DC for each requirement you lack. This covers everything but the item creation feat. "Must be an elf", "passwall", "danced with the devil in the pale moonlight", all skippable. Caster level only sets the DC for making the item, it is not a requirement unless it's listed in the requirements. Additionally, several items have wonky caster levels for legacy reason. Pearl of power 1 requires CL 20. The actual required CL is minimum to cast 1st level spells, CL 1. For now I'll ignore this and assume the CL is appropriate.
Armor and weapons work exactly like wondrous items except it's a two-step process. The weapon/armor has two caster levels, one for the enhancement bonus and one for the highest special property. The base DC is based off of whichever one is higher. You must meet (or skip) the requirements of the enhancement bonus (CL = 3 x enhancement) and all of the special properties at the base DC you previously derived.
So for some examples:
A potion of Cure Light Wounds requires you to have Brew Potion and someone present the entire time with Cure Light Wounds prepared or known (this can be you, of course). The prepared or known Cure Light Wounds is expended on each day of crafting (one) and the DC is 6 (5+1).
A Gunman's Duster requires you to have Craft Wondrous Items and you to have Amateur Gunslinger or be a gunslinger, and for someone to have Bullet Shield prepared or known and to be present the entire time. Bullet Shield will be expended each day of crafting (thirty-six). The DC is 17 (5+12) if all the requirements are met. If the person providing Bullet Shield is gone or you are not a gunslinger and do not have Amateur Gunslinger the DC is 22 (5+12+5). If neither of the requirements are met the DC is 27 (5+12+5+5).
A +4 Menacing Holy Speed sword requires you to have Craft Magic Arms and Armor, you to be good, you to have CL 12, and for someone present to have prepared or known Phantasmal Killer, Holy Smite, and Haste. The spells are expended each day of crafting (two hundred). The CL of the item is 12 (highest of 12 and (highest of 10, 7, and 7)). The base check is 17 (5+12) with all requirements. Missing one is 22, two is 27, three is 33, four is 37, five is 43. This can actually be made much easier by crafting in pieces (something only really possible with weapons and armor). A +4 weapon has a base DC of 17 and requires CL 12. The max DC is 22 (5+12+5 for CL<12). Making your +4 weapon menacing only requires Phantasmal Killer and has a base DC of 17 and a max of 22. Ditto speed and Haste. Holy has the most requirements (must be good and Holy Smite) but the highest DC would be 27 (5+12+5+5) provided you already had a +4 Menacing Speed sword.
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
