Looking for a few thoughts on some newer, more devious ways to beat the rogue who can't be seen or heard. I like things like "lifesense" and "bloodsense"...anything else that can overcome the protection of darkstalker and other magic protections?
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Looking for a few thoughts on some newer, more devious ways to beat the rogue who can't be seen or heard. I like things like "lifesense" and "bloodsense"...anything else that can overcome the protection of darkstalker and other magic protections?
Could the lowly Kobold just toss flour about in the room?
Looking for a few thoughts on some newer, more devious ways to beat the rogue who can't be seen or heard. I like things like "lifesense" and "bloodsense"...anything else that can overcome the protection of darkstalker and other magic protections?Could the lowly Kobold just toss flour about in the room?
And grant him concealment? :p
Scent ability, and if I remember Blindsense has a way of seeing past stealth too.
Flour wouldn't grant concealment unless there was a LOT of it used, not just a handfull, so it's still an option.
Faerie Fire is always a favorite, and it's a low level spell too.
Various methods of scrying also do wonderfully. Detect spells such as detect law/chaos/good/evil, or even Detect Magic (if he's carrying any magic on him) could be used to find him.
I had an ingenious party pull an invisible quasit that was harassing them out of hiding using both of the last two methods. The cleric cast detect magic and concentrated for a few rounds, and eventually pinpointed where the quasit was. He told the bard where to throw his Faerie Fire, and the spell bieng AoE, lit the quasit up like a beacon. Bloody chaos ensued.
Faerie Fire, Glitterdust, Dust of Appearance. Ridiculously high perception checks.
I think hes talking about the sneaker having the Darkstalker feat from the 3.5 aberrations book; even creatures with blindsight or scent have to make perception checks to notice the sneaker with Darkstalker.
Detect Magic, Detect [Alignment], and so on can detect various auras that the target may have, though it takes a while to pinpoint, and by then, there may already be a knife sticking out of your throat, which is bad.
If the stealthy type is supplementing mundane stealth with illusions, then True Seeing pierces those defenses.
Mindsight, also from Lords of Madness (page 126), is not on the list of things Darkstalker protects against. It requires telepathy and automatically detects every intelligent creature within range of that telepathy. Easy ways to acquire telepathy include a Psion telepath alternate class feature at level 5 and the Mindbender PrC from Complete Arcane (never take more than one level in that class). Unfortunately, Mindblank blocks Mindsight.
The psionic power Touchsight is also not on the list of stuff Darkstalker protects against. The only real way to hide from Touchsight is through incorporeality, which is probably going to be really glowy on Detect Magic or else require the character in question to be a ghost, subject to Detect Undead.
A Psion telepath with the Telepathy ACF as a passive scan and Touchsight as an active scan, possibly paired with a source for Detect Magic and Detect Undead will pretty much be able to detect anything.
Scent ability, and if I remember Blindsense has a way of seeing past stealth too.
Darkstalker allows stealth checks against Scent, Blindsight, Blindsense, and Tremorsense. It's a feat that was too long in coming, since there have long been way too many, "You fail, no matter how good you are," effects against stealth.
Find out what said rogues stealth check is with buffs, gear and items, make monsters perception check equal to there check that way always chance to succeed or fail equal to players chances. Seen this sort of thing happen a few times where player has something like +100 hide/sneak checks and it can get absurd. My solution was not " auto " spot but rather just giving monsters an on par check vs the player. As well as something to pierce through illusions if using invisibility is also useful. As for bosses its a given that any boss should have a significantly high chance to spot the player adding 10 or 20 higher then players bonus is probably a good way to go. Player should NEVER have a 100% success ratio or, require DM to roll a 20 to pass, adjust checks as needed to balance it out.
I see no reason why mind blank would block mindsight as mindsight is not any form of divination magic.
*Checks.* Okay, the 3.5 version would protect against Mindsight, but the way Pathfinder revised it, it doesn't grant the necessary immunity anymore.
Defending against sneak attacks from stealthers is substantially easier. Just take the blindfight feat, which is a fantastic feat for anyone to take anyways. Among other things, it essentially negates melee sneak attacks from hidden/invisible attackers, since you wouldn't lose your Dex to AC from a hidden melee attacker. (Ranged sneak attacks still work, as well as sneak attacks from flanking and any other method that denies Dex to AC).
And as was said, any form of concealment against the attack would work as well.
One of the better things one of my players pulled on me.
He faced away from the group in the general direction he suspected the rogue was in.
Cast Detect Magic, is there magic in front of me? Yes...
Cast Cone of Cold. CoC hits a bigger cone than DM does.
Generally, if you can pinpoint their general area via a detection spell, AoE spells are effective. Ice Storm in particular since it allow no save.
You could also level the playing field with mass invisibility or something similar. You can't see them, but now they cannot see you either.
Finally, look at the high end summon monster spells. Some of those creatures have special senses.
Detect Magic, Detect [Alignment], and so on can detect various auras that the target may have, though it takes a while to pinpoint, and by then, there may already be a knife sticking out of your throat, which is bad.
If the stealthy type is supplementing mundane stealth with illusions, then True Seeing pierces those defenses.
Mindsight, also from Lords of Madness (page 126), is not on the list of things Darkstalker protects against. It requires telepathy and automatically detects every intelligent creature within range of that telepathy. Easy ways to acquire telepathy include a Psion telepath alternate class feature at level 5 and the Mindbender PrC from Complete Arcane (never take more than one level in that class). Unfortunately, Mindblank blocks Mindsight.
The psionic power Touchsight is also not on the list of stuff Darkstalker protects against. The only real way to hide from Touchsight is through incorporeality, which is probably going to be really glowy on Detect Magic or else require the character in question to be a ghost, subject to Detect Undead.
A Psion telepath with the Telepathy ACF as a passive scan and Touchsight as an active scan, possibly paired with a source for Detect Magic and Detect Undead will pretty much be able to detect anything.
Scent ability, and if I remember Blindsense has a way of seeing past stealth too.Darkstalker allows stealth checks against Scent, Blindsight, Blindsense, and Tremorsense. It's a feat that was too long in coming, since there have long been way too many, "You fail, no matter how good you are," effects against stealth.
Thanks Viletta, and everyone else too for the excellent ideas! I could also assign "immunity to sneak attacks and critical hits" as a creature's ability (to an existing creature), essentially advancing it, and then adding a CR or 2. But that's cheap.
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One of the better things one of my players pulled on me.
He faced away from the group in the general direction he suspected the rogue was in.
Cast Detect Magic, is there magic in front of me? Yes...
Cast Cone of Cold. CoC hits a bigger cone than DM does.Generally, if you can pinpoint their general area via a detection spell, AoE spells are effective. Ice Storm in particular since it allow no save.
You could also level the playing field with mass invisibility or something similar. You can't see them, but now they cannot see you either.
Finally, look at the high end summon monster spells. Some of those creatures have special senses.
Can the rogue with spellcraft or some sort of permanent detect magic cast on himself detect that he's being detected by another creature trying to find him?
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Detect Magic, Detect [Alignment], and so on can detect various auras that the target may have, though it takes a while to pinpoint, and by then, there may already be a knife sticking out of your throat, which is bad.
If the stealthy type is supplementing mundane stealth with illusions, then True Seeing pierces those defenses.
Mindsight, also from Lords of Madness (page 126), is not on the list of things Darkstalker protects against. It requires telepathy and automatically detects every intelligent creature within range of that telepathy. Easy ways to acquire telepathy include a Psion telepath alternate class feature at level 5 and the Mindbender PrC from Complete Arcane (never take more than one level in that class). Unfortunately, Mindblank blocks Mindsight.
The psionic power Touchsight is also not on the list of stuff Darkstalker protects against. The only real way to hide from Touchsight is through incorporeality, which is probably going to be really glowy on Detect Magic or else require the character in question to be a ghost, subject to Detect Undead.
A Psion telepath with the Telepathy ACF as a passive scan and Touchsight as an active scan, possibly paired with a source for Detect Magic and Detect Undead will pretty much be able to detect anything.
you sir, are my hero.
-t