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Two easy answers:
1) Yes
2) Yes
More specifically, rays are considered weapon-like spells. They can crit (20/x2 like you mentioned). There was a long thread about enervation recently and Jason (or James, I can't remember) confirmed that you would double the dice thrown on a crit with that spell.
Threadjack:
How about sneak attacking with 1)ray or 2)ranged touch attack? I'm not sure about will it work or not. I have ruled that you can sneak attack with ray/ranged touch attack but I can't found answer to this one.
1. Yes. Page 214 of the CRB says:
"If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit."
Theres similar language for touch range spells on page 213.
2. Enervation, yes. Ray spells don't necessarily do damage, so those that don't do damage cannot crit. e.g. critting with a Ray of Exhaustion or Dimensional Anchor has no additional effect.
So the real question is what constitutes 'damage' for these purposes. Obviously spells that reduce hit points of the target, such as scorching ray, would count.
In 3.5 it was spelled out in Complete Arcane that ability damage, ability drain, and level drain were all considered damage that could be doubled on a critical. Ability Penalties (such as from Ray of Enfeeblement) were not considered damage and could not be doubled.
Page 555 talks about ability drain, damage, and penalties in greater detail. It doesn't make clear that this constitutes damage for purposes of critting with a ray or touch attack. However, given the designers statement that Enervation specifically works, we can reasonably conclude that ability damage and drain work the same. Its not clear, however, if ability penalties constitute damage.
As for sneak attacks, they worked the same. As a general rule, if a crit would apply then so would sneak attack. Its not explicitly stated here, but it can be considered a carry-over from before, and it fits in line with the rules regarding crits with spells. It was spelled out in 3.5 that a sneak attack with a spell does additional sneak attack damage of the same type as the spell, so a sneak attack with a Scorching Ray would do additional fire damage. Spells that did ability damage or drain or level drain do additional negative energy damage.
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As for sneak attacks, they worked the same. As a general rule, if a crit would apply then so would sneak attack. Its not explicitly stated here, but it can be considered a carry-over from before, and it fits in line with the rules regarding crits with spells. It was spelled out in 3.5 that a sneak attack with a spell does additional sneak attack damage of the same type as the spell, so a sneak attack with a Scorching Ray would do additional fire damage. Spells that did ability damage or drain or level drain do additional negative energy damage.
Not trying to be argumentative...so please do not infer it as such...but I always thought a sneak attack was lining up a shot to a vital area...if you know what I mean...like a shot with the dagger through heart and lungs something that means you are doing precision damage. How exactly would a enervation spell be precision based or to quote myself "lined up" Seems to me it would have its effect and thats that.
Just input on topic not disagreeing either way.
Dunno, thats just how it worked. You make a reasonable point. It would also make sense to apply that reasoning to a critical hit though.
I'll counter and say that it makes the game more fun to permit crit/sneak attacks with such spells. So maybe thats why. That depends on you're perspective of course, especially if you are the guy who just got critted with an Empowered Enervation.
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Dunno, thats just how it worked. You make a reasonable point. It would also make sense to apply that reasoning to a critical hit though.
I'll counter and say that it makes the game more fun to permit crit/sneak attacks with such spells. So maybe thats why. That depends on you're perspective of course, especially if you are the guy who just got critted with an Empowered Enervation.
No doubt. I like it because I like anything that reminds my players of their characters mortality. Psychology can work wonders.
How exactly would a enervation spell be precision based or to quote myself "lined up" Seems to me it would have its effect and thats that.
Maybe the body is more susceptible to the energies in certain places - maybe for example skin provides a basic resistance to it, and that a critical might hit where there isn't skin - in the mouth or eyes, or in an already opened wound. For electrical energy, this would make sense, and maybe the enervation spell works a bit like that? Or it could be something entirely different - that you manage to hit him when he grunts in pain from a stab, and thus is less able to resist it or whatever.
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How exactly would a enervation spell be precision based or to quote myself "lined up" Seems to me it would have its effect and thats that.Maybe the body is more susceptible to the energies in certain places - maybe for example skin provides a basic resistance to it, and that a critical might hit where there isn't skin - in the mouth or eyes, or in an already opened wound. For electrical energy, this would make sense, and maybe the enervation spell works a bit like that? Or it could be something entirely different - that you manage to hit him when he grunts in pain from a stab, and thus is less able to resist it or whatever.
I can kind of see the point you are trying to make here but know we are verging on some kind of second by second hit location. I try to avoid that whole discussion.
There just isn't a need to break everything down into fine points. Its a game. Not real life and needs to flow, to remain entertaining.
(Rakshasa: Suddenly starts daydreaming about all the lost time watching people postulate about how things could happen using real science and physics...and also remembers why it takes some groups days to finish a simple premade adventure.)
But I digress...
A better point would be to think of enervation like radiation damage. It effects the cellular structure causing damage. Enervation is like draining life energy from a person doesn't matter if you hit them in the foot or the face it does said effect...but if it was in the face it could cause loss of sight or facuilties.
So I guess I agree with what you said above.
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Yikes I hadn't thought of sneak damage, but a moderately levelled Rogue / Wizard (3/7)
Could do 1d4 + 2d6 negative levels on a sneak attack, and do that twice per day (with reasonable intelligence, and I guess four times if they have a spell focus and are a specialist.)
Compared to a level 10 straight wizard, or level 10 straight rogue, is that balanced (okay I realize balancing around a single attack it crazy talk but I thought I would ask.)
Back of the envelope without a save, and assuming he isn't undead, the BBEG goes down 9 negative level like a rock first round.
Going further our one trick pony is now level 13 rogue / level 7 wizard, he can do 1d4 + 7d6, which is ~26 negative level on average, no save.
I guess death ward is the counter spell to all this, but I think I smell a player smooshing coming up, just for evil gm sakes :)
The extra sneak attack damage wouldn't be extra negative levels. It would be extra negative energy damage.
In any event, you could probably optimize your rogue/wizard better with Arcane Trickster.
Yikes I hadn't thought of sneak damage, but a moderately levelled Rogue / Wizard (3/7)
Could do 1d4 + 2d6 negative levels on a sneak attack, and do that twice per day (with reasonable intelligence, and I guess four times if they have a spell focus and are a specialist.)
Compared to a level 10 straight wizard, or level 10 straight rogue, is that balanced (okay I realize balancing around a single attack it crazy talk but I thought I would ask.)
Back of the envelope without a save, and assuming he isn't undead, the BBEG goes down 9 negative level like a rock first round.
Going further our one trick pony is now level 13 rogue / level 7 wizard, he can do 1d4 + 7d6, which is ~26 negative level on average, no save.
I guess death ward is the counter spell to all this, but I think I smell a player smooshing coming up, just for evil gm sakes :)
Actually, the sneak attack damage is negative energy damage, not 2d6 more negative levels. The damage from a sneak attack is the same damage type as the spell, but is tacked on as damage, not as more level drain.
Still, it adds some insult to injury! ;)
Oops! Ninja'd by Father Dale!
The extra sneak attack damage wouldn't be extra negative levels. It would be extra negative energy damage.
This is correct. This came up last year when I was playing a voodoo-themed cleric about a year ago. His spell choices were all about curses and ability damage. He was cool as hell.
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The extra sneak attack damage wouldn't be extra negative levels. It would be extra negative energy damage.This is correct. This came up last year when I was playing a voodoo-themed cleric about a year ago. His spell choices were all about curses and ability damage. He was cool as hell.
Okay that seems better, otherwise any of the ray spells would be extra lethal.