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Well to start evil doesn't mean they are bad all the time. So there is no reason things can't keep the way they are now. I have allowed evil character in my games and been a player in games with evil characters and/or played them myself. They work as long as everyone is mature and the "evil" PC doesn't running around doing stupid evil stuff all the time just cause he is "evil" now.
The best evil villians are those that believe they are doing good but are willing to step over the line and do bad things to accomplish what they see as the greater good.
Now with that said mini rant. This is why I loath the alignment system in DnD, things are not and should never be as black and white as the alignment system often encourages it to be. Yes you don't have to play it that way but many do and it has to do with. Someone that does only a little evil shows as evil just like a demon would.
Personally in our games we tend to have detect spells only pick of those of a very strong feeling. So most normally people don't show up on detect evil or good unless they really go all out.
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Because your group is passed the days of being "less mature," you're not likely to have any problems -- it'll play out well.
Regarding alignments that are potentially "group-harmful": I ask my Players, when they have a CN, NE, LE or CE PC concept, to explain exactly what makes them LE. What is it about their personality or beliefs? Then I'll give a hypothetical, in-game situation and ask what they would do.
Regarding experiences: Like your group, my groups for the last several years (since the mid 90s), have been past the days of being "less mature" and I've never had a problem Player. At least, nothing has sustained after a brief DM statement that PCs can't go against other PCs because of the social aspect of the game.
Be mindful about one other spell (group of) that damages everyone that isn't a certain alignment. There's some pretty powerful Cleric spells that damage everyone that's not Lawful or not Good or whatever.
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Like Dark Mistress and many other gamers, I play where Detect Evil will only detect really evil characters: clerics, blackguards, evil outsiders, other evil NPCs that, for game purposes, are beyond redemption. (PCs can kill generic orcs because they fall into this category but could not "murder" a specific orc NPC because he or she individually is different from "generic" orcs)
At the moment 3 of the characters in my group are evil. We have discussed this before starting the campaign, and decided that group dynamics should not suffer because of this. So very player had to find a reason for their character to stay with the group.
They are level 8 now and it is working out so far.
So discuss this with your group of players. The fact that one character is evil, does not mean he instantly hates all the other player characters. The other way round it does not mean all other player characters hate him when he detects as evil. There might be intriguing possibilities for roleplay (e.g. other characters trying to convince him not to turn towards evil, other characters being convinced by him, etc.).
One thing I did as DM in my campaign is give the PCs no reason to turn against each other. So no 2 different PCs working for different factions which are enemies. I promised my players that I would not make it extra difficult for them to work together, and even introduced a plot hook that gave them common ground for working with each other.
The campaign has turned out to have an "us against the world" feel, since they are all outcasts, and this is a good motivation to keep a group with 3 neutrals and 3 evils together.
I have played in a few all evil games; really; people more play mean or spiteful rather than really evil; which I guess is a good sign.
One low level evil game that was pretty cool was were we played among the normal evil races; I played a Flind for example; was neat, there were a couple gnolls and I dont remember what else; the campaign was that a big meteor fell from the sky and we had to race against orcs, goblins, and other races like that to find where it landed and get the ore and whatever other loot for our tribes/group. Mix in some religious shamanistic stuff about meteors and we had a good game. Didnt really seem evil though really; sure we all ate most of our enemies and didnt take prisoners and the like; but other than the eating thing; seemed like any other game.
I have played a few evil guys who were on the cusp of redemtion; half demons or half vampires and the like who have had a brush with good and virtuous and though that were a better way to go; problem is; even in good campaigns; regardless of what peoples character sheets say; they are not really very good; most people play nuetral and are not a really good example, at least in the groups I have played with; now I have seen some people really roleplay some really good characters, but sadly; not when I was trying to play a evil guy seeking a good mentor.
Two evil class that are a disaster for a game regardless; are CE and NE; these self centered and brutal might make right classes can and generally will self destruct a party; LE isnt good by any means; but at least they have the appearance of following the rules out in the open, but they can and will stick it to you if any of the good or neutal guys want to bend a rule; that is the eat and drink of that alignment.
As long as your evil players do their stuff out of sight and the other players dont play out of context about things they hear gm to player and keep things in game; there can be a lot of roleplay threads and interesting moral things to explore that make haveing a evil character worth having in the group though he often tends to be the fall guy; he can also "take care" of issues others are to squimish to handle.
reminds me of a scene with the DC superheroes where Batman, who is not good, is "interviewing" a criminal hardcase who wouldnt buckle to Superman or Wonderwoman; so Bats asks them for a moment; they back off; and the hard case starts singing like a lark after Batman whispers something to him; Wonder Woman asks Sups what he said; Superman grimaces and says "you dont really want to know" and they leave it alone; that is the eat and drink of a LE player in a nutshell.
Evil only wins when a good guy looks away; in stories of all sorts; it happens all the time and stories are what this game is all about.
I agree; this is a good team; if a GM makes it Party against the world; then party dynamics are much less an issue and players work as a team to survive and thrive rather than bicker. Awesome; wish I could play with you :)
At the moment 3 of the characters in my group are evil. We have discussed this before starting the campaign, and decided that group dynamics should not suffer because of this. So very player had to find a reason for their character to stay with the group.
They are level 8 now and it is working out so far.
So discuss this with your group of players. The fact that one character is evil, does not mean he instantly hates all the other player characters. The other way round it does not mean all other player characters hate him when he detects as evil. There might be intriguing possibilities for roleplay (e.g. other characters trying to convince him not to turn towards evil, other characters being convinced by him, etc.).
One thing I did as DM in my campaign is give the PCs no reason to turn against each other. So no 2 different PCs working for different factions which are enemies. I promised my players that I would not make it extra difficult for them to work together, and even introduced a plot hook that gave them common ground for working with each other.
The campaign has turned out to have an "us against the world" feel, since they are all outcasts, and this is a good motivation to keep a group with 3 neutrals and 3 evils together.
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I would ask why this character is evil. If the player responds in a way that is vaguely similar to: So I can kill player characters/all npc's etc. he can get the hell out of my house. That's not how I play. If the character has some kind of motivation for being evil (Like being a racist, and by racist I mean he loathes a race like Elves.) I might approve.
I don't, with out good reason, usually let players create evil characters when playing in my game, as I feel going into the game with an evil character is usually just a sort of social act of rebellion that exists outside the game, among other reason...
I have a player who's character is neutral on the good/evil axis who's recent experiences we both agreed would have a big effect on the character's view points and such. So I left it up to him to decide how his character would interpret things, if he would pick up the cause to fight against evil, or be lured towards evil. He felt his character would drift towards evil, so we went with that.
I'm not sure what I may have gotten myself into, though. A simple detect evil spell would reveal that the character is evil to the rest of the party, and then I'm not sure what the reaction would be.
Basically my main concern is that this plays out in a way that is still fun for everyone, as these kinds of things usually turned into disaster back when we were... less mature.
Am I just setting my campaign up for disaster at this point? If you guys have any experiences, advice, or even links to articles about this, I'd appreciate what ever you'd like to share!
It's possible that an evil character simply views being in the party as a business arrangement. He gets loot, experience, and whatever protection other party members provide. He may not be completely trustworthy, but he might also realize that it's stupid to ruin a profitable arrangement by committing an act of greed or violence against another party member. What he does with his down time, well, that might be a different story.
Remember also that being evil doesn't mean having no sense of personal loyalty. People are complex. Look at the characters on 'Sopranos,' for example. Many of them you would say are evil. They regularly hurt others, and often derive pleasure from it. But part of what makes the show fascinating is that they also demonstrate loyalty, and even love to their associates and family. The flip of that is the characters on the show who are morally decent, but have relationships with characters who are bad. There are various reasons for maintaining relationships with people like that, even if you know they are bad news.
Also, there are degrees of evil. Some people are simply badder than others. An evil character might commit some evil acts, but feel remorse and still be redeemable.
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This should actually be fairly easy to deal with. If the character starts performing illegal or evil deeds where folks might possibly find out, then he'll have to deal with the consequences.
Remember, you're not forcing that player to try to kidnap and ransom the princess. It's no different than a level 1 fighter trying to hunt dragons.
Give him the death he deserves, and move on. :)
Sometimes an evil character just provides great opportunities for your players to r/p. If it goes the other way, feel free to pull out the dm crit stick.
I agree; this is a good team; if a GM makes it Party against the world; then party dynamics are much less an issue and players work as a team to survive and thrive rather than bicker. Awesome; wish I could play with you :)
Thanks. So far it has been a great campaign. I hope I can keep it that way.
Playing with us is probably not an option, since I live in the Netherlands.
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This should actually be fairly easy to deal with. If the character starts performing illegal or evil deeds where folks might possibly find out, then he'll have to deal with the consequences.
Remember, you're not forcing that player to try to kidnap and ransom the princess. It's no different than a level 1 fighter trying to hunt dragons.
Give him the death he deserves, and move on. :)
Sometimes an evil character just provides great opportunities for your players to r/p. If it goes the other way, feel free to pull out the dm crit stick.
I try to give such players a few warning shots across the bow, when possible. Have their character put in the stocks, caned, hung by their thumbs, or perhaps, have a finger chopped off.
If they persist, society (even an imaginary one) will defend the peace.