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I enjoy reading through the Bestiary and visualizing all sorts of encounters with the creatures in it. Recently I was taking a look at the Froghemoth and figured I'd come here to get some details clarified.
Can someone walk me through how much a froghemoth can do in a round?
Let's say Moe, Larry and Curly go down to the local fishing hole and as they stand by the water Freddie the Froghemoth gets the jump on them. Assuming they are all within reach of his attacks, in the first full round would Freddie be able to grab all of them? How soon can he use Constrict and Swallow Whole?
I ask because I've never been 100% clear on the grab/constrict/swallow whole rules and when they all kick in.
Freddie would be able to to grab 6 people (4 with tentacles, 1 with bite, 1 with tongue), and the folks grabbed by tentacles would suffer constriction damage if the grab (CMB) attempt succeeded. Swallowing whole would have to wait for the next round (you have to begin the turn grappling an opponent), and note that the froghemoth can only maintain one grapple per round, so everybody else would go free.
Freddie's best bet against a party of adventurers is to do a full attack every round rather than grappling.
Well during the surprise round he'll get the one attack, but during the first round of initiative if he can make a full round attack then he get;
bite +20 (2d6+10/19–20 plus grab)
4 tentacles +18 (1d8+5 plus grab)
tongue +18 (1d4+5 plus grab)
It may attempt a grapple with each body part that hits. It can choose to maintain that grapple with the specific body part at a -20 CMB or it can choose to conduct the grapple normally in which case it counts as being "grappled."
So if your three adventurers get attacked, one of them bit, and two hit by tentacles. All three of them could be grappled. The next turn if all three are still grappled it can swallow the one in it's mouth and deal constrict damage to the two in it's tentacles.
Since all of these grapples are essentially free actions for Freddie and it loses no actions by trying to maintain them I would certainly grapple the heck out of the adventurers.
The next turn if all three are still grappled it can swallow the one in it's mouth and deal constrict damage to the two in it's tentacles.
How does it do that if making a grapple check is a standard action?
The "grapple at -20" option is poorly integrated with the new grapple rules, IMO.
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Thank you both for the quick replies. I am still a bit unclear on when the Constrict damage can first kick in. Is it in the same round as the original tenticle attack, or in the next round in place of the same tentacle?
I'm thinking it is in addition to the original tentacle in every round Freddie attacks with it.
Swallowing whole would have to wait for the next round (you have to begin the turn grappling an opponent), and note that the froghemoth can only maintain one grapple per round, so everybody else would go free.
What about if he takes a -20 penalty to his CMB? He never gains the grappled condition. Swallow whole only requires that the opponents be grappled in the mouth (tongue or bite, in the case of froghemoth). The tentacles have constrict damage.
One strategy would be to grab someone with a tentacle and hold them for a round without taking a -20. Then the froghemoth would get a "+5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds". They'd take a -20 on a later round, but the CMB would be +13, which isn't horrible against a wizard or cleric.
The next turn if all three are still grappled it can swallow the one in it's mouth and deal constrict damage to the two in it's tentacles.How does it do that if making a grapple check is a standard action?
The "grapple at -20" option is poorly integrated with the new grapple rules, IMO.
I'm reading it that if you take the -20 to your CMB for grappling with just that body part then only that body part is grappling. Since the entire monster isn't being affected by the grappled condition.
Thank you both for the quick replies. I am still a bit unclear on when the Constrict damage can first kick in. Is it in the same round as the original tenticle attack, or in the next round in place of the same tentacle?
It's whenever Freddie makes a successful grapple check with a tentacle. So that could certainly be in the same round as the original tentacle + grab attack.
I'm reading it that if you take the -20 to your CMB for grappling with just that body part then only that body part is grappling. Since the entire monster isn't being affected by the grappled condition.
I still don't see how that gives him multiple standard actions. Or does each tentacle get a standard action of its own while grappling at -20? That seems reasonable, I suppose, but the rules don't really say that (IMO).
That's what I was thinking. If you take the -20 then the limbs basically act on their own for the purpose of grappling. I could be completely wrong here, but I like the idea of krakens being able to wave multiple around in the air while swallowing sailors left and right. Not grabbling up a whole ton of people, then dropping all but one of them the next turn....
The problem is that one interpretation (i.e. froghemoth only gets to make on grapple check per round) is weaker than 3.5 and the other interpretation (i.e. froghemoth can make up to 6 grapple checks per round) is stronger than 3.5. So you can't even use how it used to work as a guideline.
In 3.5, the froghemoth would get four possible grapple checks per round (because of its +16 BAB) at -0/-5/-10/-15. Also, if it chose to grapple at -20 when it made its Improved Grab attack, it could make natural attacks normally with its other (non-grappling) limbs while the opponent would be stuck making grapple checks to break free (or whatever).