A question on Deadly stroke.

[Ardenup]

Hi,

I am after some clarification on this feat-
Benefit: As a standard action, make a single attack with the weapon for which you have Greater Weapon Focus against a stunned or flat-footed opponent. If you hit, you deal double the normal damage and the target takes 1 point of Constitution bleed (see Conditions). The additional damage and bleed is not multiplied on a critical hit.

Now they way i read it taking a point on Con bleed does nothing on the first round, but taking a point on the second round makes the viticm lose 1hp per HD, yes so at level 20 this is 20 damage every other round.

Is it worth it?
I'm condsidering it for a sorcerer EK build who will use a spell (wings of flurry- 3.5) to stun multiple foes (or Maw of Chaos) then use a standard action to Deadly stroke a foe (or multiple foes over a number of rounds with Maw).

He'll only qualify at level 19. So the damage output is down over a spell and he has power attack, BAB17, Leap attack and a level of Paladin with extra smite.

I WANT to take it, mostly because an ElK should be good at melee, but the feat is probably weak by the time I take it.

The Build is below. Any opinions or other ideas? (Especially Treantmonk or MIB since you guys a pretty good with optimising)

Paladin1 Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day, Wpn Fcs: Longsword, Power Attack, Cleave, Empower Spell
Sorc1 Arcane Bond, Cantrips, Eschew Materials
Sorc2 Heighten Spell
Sorc3 Metamagic Adept 1/day, Blood spell (Identify)
Sorc4 Craft Wand
Sorc5 Blood Spell (Invisibility)
Sorc6 Extra Smiting
Sorc7 Metamagic Adept 2/day, Blood Spell (Dispel Magic), Combat Casting
Splswd1 Ignore Spl Fail 10%, Residual Metamagic
Abj Champ Abjurant Armor, Extended Abj
Eldritch Knight1 Diverse Training, Vexing Flanker, Dimensional Jaunt
EK2
EK3 Leap Attack
EK4
EK5 Extra Spell, Wpn Spl: Longsword
EK6
EK7 Melee Weapon Mastery: Longsword
EK8
EK9 Gtr Weapon Fcs: Longsword, Extra Spell
EK10 Spell Crit

I'm thinking of swapping cleave for dazzling display, empower spell for shatter defences and extra spell at 19 for deadly stroke.

At the moment the build is based on casting heightend/empowerd spells most of the time (then repeating the spell with residual metamagic)- mostly wings of flurry.

When he does decide to melee it will mainly be a charge/power attack/leap attack. Then move away and cast again, He may stay in melee vs evil if using smite.

Melee weapon mastery and GWF was taken merely to get the highest to hit chance possible.

Spell list below

Spells Bloodline,Feat/New Arcana
0- (9) Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Daze, Message, Silent Portal, Ghost Sound, Ray of Frost

1-(5) Identify, Shield, Mage armour swap for Persistant Blade, Benign Transposition, Grease, Enlarge Person

2-(5) Invisibility, Ray of Stupidity, Alter Self, Wraithstrike, Sonic Weapon (to be swapped once blade is enchanted for Ray of Ice), Seeking Ray (To be swapped for scorching ray at lvl 6)

3-(4) Dispel Magic, Sleet Storm, Blacklight, Fly, Scintillating Sphere (to be swapped for Tormenting thirst then swapped for Demension Step

4-(4) Haste, Enervation, Wings of Flurry, Resilient Sphere

5-(4) Dimension Shuffle, Ball Lightning, Teleport, Baleful Polymorph

6-(3) Thunder Field (PHB2), Repulsion, Wages of Sin, Superior Resistance (feat)

7-(3) Reverse Gravity, Waves of Exhaustion, Limited Wish

8-(3) Polymorph Any Object, Gtr Planar Binding, Giantform 2(Feat)

9-(3) Maw of Chaos

As a caster he's decent (there is an AA wizard in the party as well) but I'd like him to be good in melee. (Not wanting him to 'out melee' a fighter but would like him to handle himself well) Really chasing a way to up DPR.

Cheers.

[northbrb]

Ardenup wrote:

Hi,

I am after some clarification on this feat-
Benefit: As a standard action, make a single attack with the weapon for which you have Greater Weapon Focus against a stunned or flat-footed opponent. If you hit, you deal double the normal damage and the target takes 1 point of Constitution bleed (see Conditions). The additional damage and bleed is not multiplied on a critical hit.

Now they way i read it taking a point on Con bleed does nothing on the first round, but taking a point on the second round makes the viticm lose 1hp per HD, yes so at level 20 this is 20 damage every other round.

Is it worth it?
I'm condsidering it for a sorcerer EK build who will use a spell (wings of flurry- 3.5) to stun multiple foes (or Maw of Chaos) then use a standard action to Deadly stroke a foe (or multiple foes over a number of rounds with Maw).

He'll only qualify at level 19. So the damage output is down over a spell and he has power attack, BAB17, Leap attack and a level of Paladin with extra smite.

I WANT to take it, mostly because an ElK should be good at melee, but the feat is probably weak by the time I take it.

The Build is below. Any opinions or other ideas? (Especially Treantmonk or MIB since you guys a pretty good with optimising)

Paladin1 Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day, Wpn Fcs: Longsword, Power Attack, Cleave, Empower Spell
Sorc1 Arcane Bond, Cantrips, Eschew Materials
Sorc2 Heighten Spell
Sorc3 Metamagic Adept 1/day, Blood spell (Identify)
Sorc4 Craft Wand
Sorc5 Blood Spell (Invisibility)
Sorc6 Extra Smiting
Sorc7 Metamagic Adept 2/day, Blood Spell (Dispel Magic), Combat Casting
Splswd1 Ignore Spl Fail 10%, Residual Metamagic
Abj Champ Abjurant Armor, Extended Abj
Eldritch Knight1 Diverse Training, Vexing Flanker, Dimensional Jaunt
EK2
EK3 Leap Attack
EK4
EK5 Extra Spell, Wpn Spl: Longsword
EK6
EK7 Melee Weapon Mastery: Longsword
EK8
EK9 Gtr Weapon Fcs: Longsword, Extra Spell
EK10 Spell Crit

I'm thinking of swapping cleave for dazzling display, empower...

if i am not mistaken Greater weapon focus requires you to be an 8th level fighter.

[Kraven Evilfart]

northbrb wrote:

if i am not mistaken Greater weapon focus requires you to be an 8th level fighter.

that it does.

But don't forget this also deals double the normal damage, so you would hit them once with this then move onto other attacks and let the bleed work its magic.

[fray]

...you are assuming the the Con is an Even Number to start with. If it isn't then it will do HD in damage right away. Also it will lower the target's Fort Save and anything else that works off Con.

I'd say it's worth it.
If nothing else some bad guy is going to have to take an action of some kind to heal the target so it doesn't bleed. (If not the target itself.) and taking actions away from the bad guys is always a good thing.

[William Timmins]

fray:
Except, from 'ability scores':
'For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.'

[Ardenup]

northbrb wrote:

if i am not mistaken Greater weapon focus requires you to be an 8th level fighter.

Not an Issue thanks to Eldritch Knight diverse training class feature

'Diverse Training

An eldritch knight adds his level to any levels of fighter he might have for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for feats (if he has no fighter levels, treat his eldritch knight levels as levels of fighter). He also adds his level to any levels in an arcane spellcasting class for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for feats.'

So he does qualify at level 19. I'm aware the bleed may work immediately, but is there a BETTER or less situational melee option I haven't considered?

A Leap/charge/power attack will do a heap more damage but unless the opponent is evil (so smitable) my AC may not be up to staying in melee too long. While it would be nice to tank i don't see it as a viable role for a caster (even an ElK). Of course given prep time (shield and blacklight spells) and light magic armor my AC/Miss chance might be up to it but I don't wanna constanly step on the fighter's toes, just get a satisfying (ie decent damage) attack off now and then.

Cheers.

[angryscrub]

have you thought about a rapier or scimitar instead, and improved critical and staggering critical? a 30% chance to stagger the opponent with each hit is pretty good, plus it helps your spell critical ability. and it requires no set up, you just have to be able to melee them and about a third of your swings result in a stagger.

[Ardenup]

I did but how often is it really likely to work. At BAB 13 (level 17 in the build) the fort save is 23- how often is that likely to be saved by a CR17 opponent? Given it will only threaten 30% anyway- might not be worth it?

Maybe bleeding critical (no save and effect stacks) would be better?

Cheers.

[angryscrub]

even if they save, they're still staggered for one round. if they fail the save that's just gravy. and staggered is pretty nasty, especially for spellcasters. move OR cast, not both.

[Ardenup]

ok, I changed the build a little

Pal1
Sor6 (Arcane Blood)
Splswrd 1
Abj Champ 2
ElK 10

Feat List (w/2 flaws)
1Wpn Fcs: Falchion , Power Attack, Combat Casting, Empower Spell

3Heighten Spell

5Vexing Flanker

7Extra Smiting
Ignore Spl Fail 10%,
9Residual Metamagic

11Diverse Training, Leap Attack, Dimensional Jaunt

13Critical Focus: Falchion

15Bleeding Critical, Wpn Spl: Falchion

17 Melee Weapon Mastery: Longsword

19 Gtr Weapon Fcs: Falchion, Staggering Critical
Spell Critical

Still has 9th level casting (1 spell), BAB17, feats that grant +4 to attack and damage, and wielding a keen falchion has a 15-20 crit threat. Apply bleed or stagger as desired.

[Loopy]

Deadly Stroke. Hehehehe.

[angryscrub]

your spell list is slightly wonky, btw. haste should be 3rd level.

[Ardenup]

angryscrub wrote:

your spell list is slightly wonky, btw. haste should be 3rd level.

no worries, I'll take haste as a 3rd level spell (dump sciltillating sphere) and that opens a 4th level slot.

Maybe
Black Tentacles?
Displacer Form?

Man, I love sorc spell flexability but spells known is a hard choice!!!

[angryscrub]

consider shadow conjuration. among other things it is sleet storm, phantom steed, glitterdust, web, mount, and unseen servant. lots of utility there that doesn't even matter if enemies make their save to know it's only partly real.

[Loopy]

Tentacles. Hehehe.