I was playing with my girlfriend today and an interesting point came up, as a half-fiend (she wanted to and there are no other players to annoy with a powerful pc race) she is immune to cold damage. I was going to tell her that she noticed it getting colder but as a creature that is immune to cold it brings the question of wether or not a creature that could not be damaged by cold could percieve it. Considering that the sensations of being cold or hot are minute sensory feedback of mild damage to the body.
She then brought up lepers who can percieve cold despite the death of the nervous system. Our debate came to a compromise with the point that half fiends have no resistance to heat (very odd by the way) so she could feel a greater lack of heat rather than the cold its self.
She then pointed out that as a magical protection her character is prevented from taking damage,not from feeling anything. Magic being magic it has nothing to do with nerve endings and medical science. And how boring everything would be if she were locked in a completely neutral existence. Would ice cream be cold and delicious or simply an oddity? (this paragraph by the aforementioned girlfriend.)
What do you think out there, I would love to know.
Here's how I see it:
If the protection is from a magical source, like the spell Energy Resistance/Immunity, then I feel like your body would react to the sensory interpretation of the element normally. Cold weather would tighten your pores, perhaps even give you goose bumps. The magical effect would kick in when it goes from "geez, I'm experiencing cold" to "and there goes a toe. Crap." Basically, whenever it goes from sensory interpretation to discomfort/damage. Magic that, as a boon, stopped you from being able to sense certain (helpful) things would be completely awful.
Now, if the protection is a racial ability (like an elemental), I would say that instead of being able to interpret cold as a normal person would (i.e. one vulnerable to the effects of freezing), they would instead perceive cold as a very comfortable and desirable effect. After all, their body is what is supplying the immunity (not resistance), which leads one to conclude that a state of extreme cold is a natural state for the body- hence comfort and perhaps even pleasure. Such a character would still be able to perceive cold, but in the same way that a human would perceive tepid or luke warm water- so comfortable that you can hardly feel it. Knowledge of the condition would allow one to properly identify it, but if you weren't paying attention it might slip past you.
Anyways, that's just my interpretation.
"Defenses/Qualities: Gains darkvision 60 feet; immunity
to poison; acid, cold, electricity, and fire resistance 10; DR
5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more);
and SR equal to creature’s CR + 11 (maximum 35)."
I assume you have a homebrew half-fiend ?
I'd probably rule it is harder to perceive, maybe a perception check where normal people wouldn't need one, cold might be perceived by surroundings as well, like visible breath or windows misting over.
Our debate came to a compromise with the point that half fiends have no resistance to heat (very odd by the way) so she could feel a greater lack of heat rather than the cold its self.
Cold is the absence of heat. You don't 'feel' cold itself. If you feel cold, it means you feel the absence of heat.
A fiend might have different ways to perceive temperature. Cold air and hot air have different pressures. Maybe he is able to sense this pressure. After all, he's brought up that way. If you're deaf you develop better sight. If you're blind you develop better hearing and touch. If he can't feel cold or heat the normal way, he might have better developed skin that is more sensitive to changes in pressure.
In any case, the problem is solved by its lack of heat resistance. If you're not immune to fire, it means you know exactly what temperature it is since we already established that cold is the absence of heat and heat is something the fiend can measure.
I'm immune to water (unlike certain aliens in certain movies), but I still feel the stuff. A slight electrical current will only tingle me, but it will kill a fly - so I'm a lot more resistant to electricity than the little buggers, but I still can feel that which doesn't harm me.
I think that even if you aren't harmed, you still feel sensations like cold, hot, and so on.
"Defenses/Qualities: Gains darkvision 60 feet; immunity
to poison; acid, cold, electricity, and fire resistance 10; DR
5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more);
and SR equal to creature’s CR + 11 (maximum 35)."I assume you have a homebrew half-fiend ?
I'd probably rule it is harder to perceive, maybe a perception check where normal people wouldn't need one, cold might be perceived by surroundings as well, like visible breath or windows misting over.
So I see, somehow we both missed the semicolon and percieved it as immunity to acid, cold, and electricity. With a fire resistance. At least none of those elements have come up in ammounts greater than 10 yet.
I'm immune to water (unlike certain aliens in certain movies), but I still feel the stuff. A slight electrical current will only tingle me, but it will kill a fly - so I'm a lot more resistant to electricity than the little buggers, but I still can feel that which doesn't harm me.
I think that even if you aren't harmed, you still feel sensations like cold, hot, and so on.
You are far from immune from water, and a physical substance is not the same thing as the level of atmospheric molecular agitation. The bit about electricity is also different from what I was talking about, if you have a resistance you would still have to feel it in order to know that there is potential danger. If there is no potential danger your nerves have no reason to ever report its presence.
If there is no potential danger your nerves have no reason to ever report its presence.
Why not? You're not one of those evolution nuts? That stuff only applies to nature. Outsiders are divine creations.
If there is no potential danger your nerves have no reason to ever report its presence.Why not? You're not one of those evolution nuts? That stuff only applies to nature. Outsiders are divine creations.
Which is all the more reason for those perceptions of reality to be alien and unfathomable to you.
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I don't see how you would percieve cold if you were immune to it. Just like you wear clothing to create an artifical environment around you body. You would only experience cold or heat if your level of protection was insufficant for the environment. Also body mass and body fat come into play as well. My girlfriend is always complaining about being cold and she dresses for heavy winter weather where I get by with a t-shirt and jeans indoors and a light jacket and gloves while outdoors.
I just don't think that white dragons and frost giants give much thought about cold at all. I think it would be absurd to see a frost giant shivering in the cold and building a fire to keep warm. I could see a frost giant having an acute awarness of heat and have sensory perceptions that are very sensitive to heat fluctuations. I don't think that a frost giant would describe cold to you in a way that you would agree because cold is the 'normal' temperature range for it. The only odd range would be the range which you might not consider cold at all or even mild but not warm or hot.
I'm immune to water (unlike certain aliens in certain movies), but I still feel the stuff. A slight electrical current will only tingle me, but it will kill a fly - so I'm a lot more resistant to electricity than the little buggers, but I still can feel that which doesn't harm me.
I think that even if you aren't harmed, you still feel sensations like cold, hot, and so on.
You can't drown or get all wrinkly when you've been in too long? :P
Physics is a house rule. You don't perceive heat or cold in Pathfinder because the heat or cold are damaging your cells on a micro (or macro, for that matter) scale. That's all physics by way of biology. It doesn't exist in D&D of any edition.
Things are a lot simpler when you accept that Pathfinder does not operate with any rules that aren't stated in the rulebook. You can perceive heat or lack of heat regardless of your resistances to heat or lack of heat because the rulebook doesn't say that you lose your ability to sense temperatures.
As a general idea, I am against penalizing someone in manners the rules don't describe. Nowhere do the rules even suggest that immunity to an element means you can't determine whether or not that element exists.
Red dragons are immune to fire yet thoroughly enjoy a roll through a volcano. Why? If they can't feel it, why bother? Its because while the heat doesn't harm them, they /enjoy/ it. (honestly- why put their hoard at risk otherwise?)
Immunity to damage doesn't mean immunity to the perception of that condition. Immune to fire doesn't mean you can't feel the volcano is hot. Immunity to cold doesn't mean you can't tell that ice is cold.
Your ability to perceive reality isn't altered- merely its ability to cause you enough damage to be notable.
-S
You can't drown or get all wrinkly when you've been in too long? :P
See, you learned something else about me.
I also outrun bullets.