Anyone know WHY elves are immune to ghoul paralysis exactly?
my only guess is that 1st ed. elves lived like 1000+ years so weren't likely to be paralyzed by fear of the grave if that's what a ghoul's touch conveys???
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my only guess is that 1st ed. elves lived like 1000+ years so weren't likely to be paralyzed by fear of the grave if that's what a ghoul's touch conveys???
Well, if that is the legacy reason, it's no longer applicable as the ghoul's touch is not a fear effect (otherwise Paladins would be immune too, once they got Aura of Courage). I've always been kinda curious on this note myself. If I recall correctly, ghouls were originally created from elves (thus why they have pointed ears) but I don't really know much beyond that.
Well, its not so much that they are immune to "ghoul paralysis" as it is that they are immune to all magical paralysis and Ghouls are simply a common carrier of it.
-S
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Which edition? I don't see that in the PRD...
It's built into the stat block.
Special Attacks paralysis (1d4+1 rounds, DC 13, elves are immune to this effect)
Well, its not so much that they are immune to "ghoul paralysis" as it is that they are immune to all magical paralysis and Ghouls are simply a common carrier of it.
That's not true. Find me anything that says elves are immune to magical paralysis (other than the specific ghoul's paralysis). Immune to sleep, yes, paralysis, no.
Which edition? I don't see that in the PRD...
It's under the special attacks of the ghouls:
Special Attacks paralysis (1d4+1 rounds, DC 13, elves are immune to this effect)
Been that way ever since first edition.
According to "Lords of Darkness," an undead adventure pack/sourcebook from Forgotten Realms, First Edition AD&D,
The presumed reason stems from the belief that elves are descendants of the god Corellon Larethian. Elven lore states that the purity of an elf's bloodline makes him heir to the god's gift of immunity, wrenched from the demons defeated in the time of myths and legends. As legend goes, the gift once extended to an immunity to all undead, but now only protects against the lesser powers of the ghoul (ghasts, with their greater power, can paralyze even an elf who fails to make a saving throw vs. paralyzation). Half-elves gain no protection against either ghoul or ghast.
Also, ghouls are traditionally any humanoids (mostly humans) that were cursed by being insatiable in life, taking from others to feed their own desires. They rise and consume the flesh of the dead in a mockery of that consumption.
As for elves, the distance from the grave could be a factor (because, in 1st, 2nd and maybe 3rd, they didn't truly die, but just left the land of the living), or the fact that elves were considered to have spirits rather than souls (in 1st and maybe 2nd edition you couldn't simply use 'Raise Dead' on an elf, it had to be Reincarnation or maybe Resurrection) all could be factors. Or simply that elves were strongly connected with life and the living.
It's not necessarily a fear effect, if it has some form of negative energy. Perhaps elves were just the opposite, mystically speaking.
Or maybe because they're 5th level vegans, but I would think they'd be more likely to be paralyzed by meat-eaters.
This is the section in the PRD about elven immunities:
"Elven Immunities: Elves are immune to magic sleep effects and get a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects."
They are not immune to paralysis.
love,
malkav
This is the section in the PRD about the ghoul:
Special Attacks paralysis (1d4+1 rounds, DC 13, elves are immune to this effect)
They are immune to the ghoul's paralysis.
I don't think that anyone is really trying to argue that Elves aren't Immune to the Ghoul's paralysis.
But the OP raises a good point. There really never was any good explanation put forth as to why elves were immune. Maybe there was something in the 2nd edition Elves Handbook (if so, I don't recall), but then again, that book was pretty much more powerful than all the other racial handbooks of the time.
I think we have finally gotten to a point in gaming where Elves are as they should be, a different race with different abilities. Not the Tolkienesque: Elves are like humans, just better and wiser and immortal and...
You get my drift.
I remember reading somewhere that it is a legacy thing from the original Chainmail, or something even further back. I believe that the elves were given this immunity because they cost more to buy than human units and were more fragile, or something to that effect. I could be completely wrong. Meh.
I think we have finally gotten to a point in gaming where Elves are as they should be, a different race with different abilities. Not the Tolkienesque: Elves are like humans, just better and wiser and immortal and...
You get my drift.
For a different take on elves, check this out.
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I remember reading somewhere that it is a legacy thing from the original Chainmail, or something even further back. I believe that the elves were given this immunity because they cost more to buy than human units and were more fragile, or something to that effect. I could be completely wrong. Meh.
Yes. According to interviews with Gygax, it was purely a balance reason between ghoul forces and elven forces.
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According to "Lords of Darkness," an undead adventure pack/sourcebook from Forgotten Realms, First Edition AD&D,The presumed reason stems from the belief that elves are descendants of the god Corellon Larethian. Elven lore states that the purity of an elf's bloodline makes him h...
That's some great lore there. :)
Maybe there was something in the 2nd edition Elves Handbook (if so, I don't recall), but then again, that book was pretty much more powerful than all the other racial handbooks of the time.
Also, darned fun. But I couldn't find any references to Ghouls or Paralysis in the old Complete Book of Elves. Just in the Lords of Darkness.
That's some great lore there. :)
Thanks. Truth be told, I was a little disappointed by the 'iffy' nature of it when I rediscovered it, but it works as well as any. And since it's a 'myth' it may not even be the real reason.
It could be darned near anything (however you want to work it), and I'm glad it's still in. It's not in 4E by the way (which is one more reason to like Pathfinder).
Of course, if you're like most of the parties I've played with, you completely forget that elves are immune to it...
Very true! The 2nd edition Complete book of Elves was way awesome...
I just regret how many 'All Elf' parties I saw in that era...
Elves are immune to ghoul paralysis because they've always been immune to it. It's a bit of fun tradition/legacy that game designers have never excised. Thankfully.
Elf favoritism! Now we have proof!
Heheh
I'm pretty sure the answer is to be found in the Underdark...Darklands...
Deep down there!
Now, the Forty-Million-Dollar Question:
Are elves thusly immune to the spell ghoul touch as well?
In 2nd Edition, yes (Complete Wizard's), according to the spell:
When this spell is in effect, the caster's touch causes any single human, dwarf, gnome, half-elf, or halfling to become rigid for 3-8 (1d6 +2) rounds unless the victim makes a successful saving throw vs. paralyzation.
But in 3rd and Pathfinder, no. It's just any living humanoid. (Maybe it should be called 'ghast touch' now, especially because of the stench added to it...
When do I get my check?
Elves are immune to ghoul paralysis because they've always been immune to it. It's a bit of fun tradition/legacy that game designers have never excised. Thankfully.
Amen! Long may it last!
I remember reading somewhere that it is a legacy thing from the original Chainmail, or something even further back. I believe that the elves were given this immunity because they cost more to buy than human units and were more fragile, or something to that effect. I could be completely wrong. Meh.
i tend to think this is prob it. i never had chainmail, but i believe the elf immunity goes back beyond the original box set.
the FR lore is an OK justification, but doesn't really explain the meta-origin.
The fact that ghoul paralysis isn't a fear effect is my point exactly. what is it then? poison? negative energy? elves ought to suck at resisting that with their low Con. I've been thinking that it really ought to be fear based. Paladins should be immune, elves not so much.
Elves are immune to ghoul paralysis because they've always been immune to it. It's a bit of fun tradition/legacy that game designers have never excised. Thankfully.
Ah, the GREAT RED REX has spoken : )
I remember reading somewhere that it is a legacy thing from the original Chainmail, or something even further back. I believe that the elves were given this immunity because they cost more to buy than human units and were more fragile, or something to that effect. I could be completely wrong. Meh.i tend to think this is prob it. i never had chainmail, but i believe the elf immunity goes back beyond the original box set.
the FR lore is an OK justification, but doesn't really explain the meta-origin.
The fact that ghoul paralysis isn't a fear effect is my point exactly. what is it then? poison? negative energy? elves ought to suck at resisting that with their low Con. I've been thinking that it really ought to be fear based. Paladins should be immune, elves not so much.
In the Lords of Darkness (sort of a Libris Mortis for 2nd Edition,) it's due to a connection to the negative material plane, disrupting nerves, chilling the body unnaturally, and then causing seizure and finally paralysis.
I've always felt (and read, I think) that most Undead are powered by negative energy, gaining their powers and effects that way, even if those powers and effects don't normally do what negative energy does.
Now, elves are supposed to be closely tied to the lifeforce of the world (in most fantasy campaigns) and therefore might have a limited immunity to this one form of negative energy, due to their closeness to the earth. Hence, it's enough to shake off that one unnatural attack, but not others.
Or, if you want to work it scientifically, perhaps they're simply wired differently than other humanoids (being closer to fey).
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Maybe it's a choice on the part of the ghoul. They like to eat what they kill, and maybe they don't like the taste of elf, so they don't bother with the paralysis attack. Who could blame them? After 100 years, I bet they're pretty stringy and tough. :)
PS: That's a silly place to put the immunity (hidden away in a monster entry). I think it should get mentioned in the profile for the elf character race too (even if it is a very specific and rarely used immunity).
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Back in the Twilight Times, dark forces unleashed the Ghoulpocalypse upon the Young Lands in order to purge the world of the living. Only a handful of elves were immune to the paralysis and thus only they were able to survive the terrible times and it is their offspring that currently dwell upon the land.
Back in the Twilight Times, dark forces unleashed the Ghoulpocalypse upon the Young Lands in order to purge the world of the living. Only a handful of elves were immune to the paralysis and thus only they were able to survive the terrible times and it is their offspring that currently dwell upon the land.
So, it's back to Elfvolution vs. Ghoulationism?
By the way, bravo on the natural selection theory!
Elves were just pretty uber in earlier editions, fantasy favouritism if you will, I know it isn't very balanced but I kinda miss the superiority of elves nowadays.
In 2nd edition you got a feel for their immortality, though they wasted most of that time by most races standards anyway.
I think they were pretty much immune (90% resistance) to all enchantment/charm spells, maybe 'hold person' is related to ghoul paralysis in some way ?