Alignment change item

[Mission125]

hey all,
in my current campaine, i'm plying a lawful evil vasharn fighter. i'm grouped with a lawful good pally and lawful good cleric. i need some kinda item i can use that will either change my alingment agains detect aligment spell. so that way my party will "trust" me. cause at this point they need me so there not killing me. :)

[Turin the Mad]

Mission125 wrote:

hey all,

in my current campaine, i'm plying a lawful evil vasharn fighter. i'm grouped with a lawful good pally and lawful good cleric. i need some kinda item i can use that will either change my alingment agains detect aligment spell. so that way my party will "trust" me. cause at this point they need me so there not killing me. :)

helm of alignment change - is a cursed item (normally).

[nidho]

Amulet of Indetectable Alignment:

Neck slot, continuous effect(Undetectable Alignment)
Spell level 2(cle) x caster level 3 x 2,000 gp /2(24h duration spell)= 6000gp

That could be another option.

[Allen Oh]

Hmm. If I'm reading the original poster correctly, he doesn't really want to change alignment; he just wants to "read" as good-aligned. So a Helm of Opposite Alignment is probably not what he's looking for in that it would produce a real alignment change to Chaotic Good, and one that he would not want to change back to Lawful Evil.

An Amulet of Undetectable Alignment would conceal his alignment, but he should be prepared to answer questions as to why he's not reading as anything.

Is there another magical item that provides the effect of a Misdirection spell? Then he could "read" as one of the other party members for purposes of a Detect Evil spell, though not for Know Alignment. Not really a perfect solution either.

Ideally, there would be a spell that not only hides one's alignment, but actually makes it appear to be something else.

[nidho]

There's no such spell as Know Alignment that I'm aware.
The OP wants to fool a LG cleric and paladin, they will be using detect evil, I suppose. He will definitely not read as evil with the amulet. Nor good or lawful or chaotic. He can pretend to be neutral.

To be fair, though, the OP's post implies that the party knows he's evil already. He's trying to fake an alignment change if I understand the situation. Then the amulet will not be of use to him if he has to "become" good.

Also there's Zone of truth... But this one could be roleplayed away, sort of.

edit:
But then misdirection, as you say, could be the answer. But that cleric and paladin are going to make their save most of the time.

[Scipion del Ferro]

They could always just take you along to try and "redeem" you or keep an eye on you. Unless you're trying to infiltrate them and reveal your evilness later...

[Mission125]

Allen Oh wrote:

Hmm. If I'm reading the original poster correctly, he doesn't really want to change alignment; he just wants to "read" as good-aligned. So a Helm of Opposite Alignment is probably not what he's looking for in that it would produce a real alignment change to Chaotic Good, and one that he would not want to change back to Lawful Evil.

An Amulet of Undetectable Alignment would conceal his alignment, but he should be prepared to answer questions as to why he's not reading as anything.

Is there another magical item that provides the effect of a Misdirection spell? Then he could "read" as one of the other party members for purposes of a Detect Evil spell, though not for Know Alignment. Not really a perfect solution either.

Ideally, there would be a spell that not only hides one's alignment, but actually makes it appear to be something else.

right i don't want to change my alingment, i want to fool them.

and another is right i can't just change my alignemt over night, but i do have a plan to make one think i have changed. the pally has been trying to get me to change my ways, so i'm going tio have a "heart to heart" with him. that night put on said item, then the next day the pally tryed to detect evil on me and wam i'm not evil, he's reformed me and there singing the prases of the gods.

[Mission125]

nidho wrote:

Amulet of Indetectable Alignment:

Neck slot, continuous effect(Undetectable Alignment)
Spell level 2(cle) x caster level 3 x 2,000 gp /2(24h duration spell)= 6000gp

That could be another option.

you also mentioned a save, i'm still kinda new to all this and was hoping ya might explaine that a bit more. how would that hinder me and what not.

[Mission125]

and i know i can't just change my alingment over night, i do have a plan that i think will work, cause thepally is trying to get me to repent my sins, so i'm going to have a hear to hear with him, and bond and what not. the nexxt day put on said item, they try and detect me and wow no more evil.

i'm just trying to bypass the detece evil. i can do nutral!

[nidho]

Mission125 wrote:

nidho wrote:

Amulet of Indetectable Alignment:

Neck slot, continuous effect(Undetectable Alignment)
Spell level 2(cle) x caster level 3 x 2,000 gp /2(24h duration spell)= 6000gp

That could be another option.

you also mentioned a save, i'm still kinda new to all this and was hoping ya might explaine that a bit more. how would that hinder me and what not.

Te save is for misdirection spell. When you're under it's effects, any caster that uses a detect(any) on you gets a will save to negate the effect.

[Allen Oh]

nidho wrote:

There's no such spell as Know Alignment that I'm aware.

I must have been thinking of an older edition of the Oldest RPG. I distinctly remember a Know Alignment spell when I played it as a teenager, and I guess I assumed that there was one in PF. My bad. :)

[Tholas]

Depending on the wits of the players you can't fool a cleric or paladin once they get suspicious. A hearthy clap on the back spiced with Smite Evil from the paladin or a Holy Smite spell from the Cleric would reveal your alignement.
But actually you don't have to change or hide your alignement. As long as you seem reluctant to kill(at least when the darned do gooders ar around) and grudgingly heed their advice they might be considering you as their personal challenge instead of a menace to be dealt with.

[Mission125]

Tholas wrote:

Depending on the wits of the players you can't fool a cleric or paladin once they get suspicious. A hearthy clap on the back spiced with Smite Evil from the paladin or a Holy Smite spell from the Cleric would reveal your alignement.

But actually you don't have to change or hide your alignement. As long as you seem reluctant to kill(at least when the darned do gooders ar around) and grudgingly heed their advice they might be considering you as their personal challenge instead of a menace to be dealt with.

so your saying my best bet is to chat with the pally and "take there advice." and maybe they might tolarate me a bit more then they do know. cause i have felt the lovely touch of a holy smite. but due to the setting were in they need my guy around. were the chosen ones. and the fact i'm vasharn, and they don't know since my race was nearly wiped out many years ago by one we call jack(my dms worls) and i've played my self into a corner too by not accepting the help from the gods (healing) bt that is cause i plan to kill the gods and if everything goes right in our compaine i will end up with a weapon that will let me acheive this goal.

there is an item i came acros reading the books. a ring of mind something.(i'm at my gf's book nowhere near me) it protects me from any mind affecting spell, detection, scrying, and a few other things. i can't figure out if there is a save for that one tho.

[nidho]

Ring of Mind Blank maybe? Wow, that ring is going to be quite expensive, like 120,000gp.
It will certainly mask your alignment like the amulet and much more.

What level is your PC now, by the way? Killing gods smells of epic levels to me.

[Mission125]

nidho wrote:

Ring of Mind Blank maybe? Wow, that ring is going to be quite expensive, like 120,000gp.

It will certainly mask your alignment like the amulet and much more.

What level is your PC now, by the way? Killing gods smells of epic levels to me.

right no lvl 10, but by the time we get to the final boss i should be 23-25, then when i get the weapon i need to kill the gods i should be close to 30.

is there any saves vs the ring of mind blank.

[kyrt-ryder]

Mission125 wrote:

nidho wrote:

Ring of Mind Blank maybe? Wow, that ring is going to be quite expensive, like 120,000gp.

It will certainly mask your alignment like the amulet and much more.

What level is your PC now, by the way? Killing gods smells of epic levels to me.

right no lvl 10, but by the time we get to the final boss i should be 23-25, then when i get the weapon i need to kill the gods i should be close to 30.

is there any saves vs the ring of mind blank.

No but it is WAY out of your pricerange. It's a custom continuous magic item of an 8th level spell.

[nidho]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Mission125 wrote:

nidho wrote:

Ring of Mind Blank maybe? Wow, that ring is going to be quite expensive, like 120,000gp.

It will certainly mask your alignment like the amulet and much more.

What level is your PC now, by the way? Killing gods smells of epic levels to me.

right no lvl 10, but by the time we get to the final boss i should be 23-25, then when i get the weapon i need to kill the gods i should be close to 30.

is there any saves vs the ring of mind blank.

No but it is WAY out of your pricerange. It's a custom continuous magic item of an 8th level spell.

Couldn't say it better.

The amulet of undetectable alignment on the other hand will only cost you approximately a 10% of your WBL. Pretty affordable.

(man, it really seems I'm trying to sell you he damn thing, doesn't it?) :P

edit:
Did I mention that it doesnt allow a save either? ;)
Magic items aside, I think your best bet is to keep yourself essential to the party, at any cost.

[Tholas]

Quote:

so your saying my best bet is to chat with the pally and "take there advice." and maybe they might tolarate me a bit more then they do know. cause i have felt the lovely touch of a holy smite.

No, not at all. As soon as they get suspicious about your alignment change they might test you. A non-evil person has nothing to fear from a smite. If you take damage they will know you deceived them.

[nidho]

Tholas wrote:

Quote:

so your saying my best bet is to chat with the pally and "take there advice." and maybe they might tolarate me a bit more then they do know. cause i have felt the lovely touch of a holy smite.

No, not at all. As soon as they get suspicious about your alignment change they might test you. A non-evil person has nothing to fear from a smite. If you take damage they will know you deceived them.

Mmm, using smite evil to see if a character is evil is a bit too meta-gamish for my taste.

I would not be encouraging it as a DM.
Attacking a person just to see if my god's wrath hurts them is not what I would do as a Lawful Good character.
I don't think a LG god would be happy about it.
The detect(stuff) spells are there for a reaon, and a way to fool them is also there for a reason.

[Shri Tamana]

I'd say stay away from any items that require a save. Paladins are notorious for awesome saves - particularly will saves.

also, it's not metagaming if you, the cleric, and the party are surrounded by evil baddies and let off a holy smite. I know that the cleric in one game I'm in (LN - the whole party is N for good-evil) tells us chaotic people to back off 'cause he's going to let loose an order's wrath. Considering we haven't been hurt by chaos hammer, and all of us were hurt by both holy smite and unholy blight at some point, its not metagaming.

We were/are 10-14 lvl.

[nidho]

Shri Tamana wrote:

I'd say stay away from any items that require a save. Paladins are notorious for awesome saves - particularly will saves.

also, it's not metagaming if you, the cleric, and the party are surrounded by evil baddies and let off a holy smite. I know that the cleric in one game I'm in (LN - the whole party is N for good-evil) tells us chaotic people to back off 'cause he's going to let loose an order's wrath. Considering we haven't been hurt by chaos hammer, and all of us were hurt by both holy smite and unholy blight at some point, its not metagaming.

We were/are 10-14 lvl.

Sure, the case you mention is just the opposite of what I meant.

I'm ok with some situations revealing or at least hinting towards the alignment of a PC.

What I cannot condone is using something like smite evil to "see" if something is evil on purpose. You cannot say: "kill them all, god will sort the good from the bad" and still claim to be LG.
You're potentially hurting a non-evil to root out evil. That's certainly not what a good character would do.

The LG paladin should not be allowed to use a mechanic to beat the fighter's roleplay while he is ignoring his own roleplay restrictions.
That's not fair. Mechanics should be a balancing tool for roleplay, not the opposite.

[Mission125]

so for a final tally.

ring of mind blank. expensive. no save.

amulet of undetectable alignment. in my price range. no save.

which leave me as a nutral alingned when they try there detice evil, and yes the smiting thing might be a problem, but i'll deal with that when it happens.

[Mission125]

i'd like to thank everyone for your help with my problem. i have alot to think about and alot to roleplay out.

[Greycloak of Bowness]

Mission125 wrote:

i'd like to thank everyone for your help with my problem. i have alot to think about and alot to roleplay out.

Mission, I haven't seen a reference to the ring of Mind Shielding yet. 8000gp and "The wearer is continually immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to magically discern her alignment."