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Headbands of intelligence grant skill ranks to one skill for every +2 it adds to the wearers Intelligence. That makes sense and solves the issue of non-permanent intelligence increase as related to skill ranks.
What about the Scarlet Ioun stone? It increases intelligence - should it not have a keyed skill as well?
Hmm, you can't use it while sleeping -- unless you sleep in a manner that a stone can orbit around your head. Or you don't sleep. I was about to mention elven trance, but that doesn't exist in PF.
I'd say if you have to put it away while sleeping, it's not a truly permanent bonus. But I suppose if you can figure out how to sleep with them on, I'd let them work like similarly to a headband of intelligence.
I'd say if you used a wayfinder or embedded the stone in you body it would be permanent as per the Seeker of Secrets book.
Hmm, you can't use it while sleeping
Sure you can. The orbit may not be perpendicular to the neck like it would be while you were standing upright, but it's magic. It can adapt.
The orbit may not be perpendicular to the neck like it would be while you were standing upright, but it's magic. It can adapt.
If the magic could adapt, it would say so in the item's description. Since it does not, it doesn't adapt. However, I pointed out earlier that as long as you slept in a manner that it could complete an orbit around your head, it would work. Most people/things don't sleep that way, but bats do.
If the magic could adapt, it would say so in the item's description. Since it does not, it doesn't adapt. However, I pointed out earlier that as long as you slept in a manner that it could complete an orbit around your head, it would work. Most people/things don't sleep that way, but bats do.
Ioun stones actually do not have to orbit to grant their abilities:
These crystalline stones always float in the air and must be within 3 feet of their owner to be of any use. When a character first acquires a stone, she must hold it and then release it, whereupon it takes up a circling orbit 1d3 feet from her head. Thereafter, a stone must be grasped or netted to separate it from its owner.
The only requirement is that the stone must be floating and within 3 feet of their owner. The orbit is their normal floating routine, but it isn't a requirement that they orbit the owner, let alone the owner's head.
Furthermore, it's very difficult to place your head so that it cannot be orbited unless you literally bury your body in a massive pile of pillows.
The orbit may not be perpendicular to the neck like it would be while you were standing upright, but it's magic. It can adapt.If the magic could adapt, it would say so in the item's description. Since it does not, it doesn't adapt. However, I pointed out earlier that as long as you slept in a manner that it could complete an orbit around your head, it would work. Most people/things don't sleep that way, but bats do.
It doesn't say it won'twork either, I'd say there is room for both interpretations. Of bigger concern is sleeping with an obvious magic item floating about your head. A pretty tempting target for an observant thief.
I think the short answer is "its magic" and the long answer is the same.
Having a small gemstone orbiting your head looks cool, but no one ever answers the question of how a person with one of these (let alone a cloud of them) can kiss without having the object of their affection repeatedly beaned with gemstones, can lean against a wall or lie prostrate on the ground if knocked unconscious, or deal with being grappled without the grappler being beaned.
My solution is that Ioun stones are basically magical earrings that don't require pierced ears. They can be removed by the wearer at will, the same as an earring, and they can also be removed by someone who succeeds in a grapple check followed by some sort of dexterity check, same as holding someone down and removing their earrings or the rings on their fingers.
Hell, since it makes as much sense as anything in the game, I'd rule that anyone with an Ioun stone could make a Will check to command the stone to come to rest somewhere on their head and serve as an earring, nose ring, bindi, beauty mark, or whatever you call an eyebrow decoration, without having to go to the trouble of getting a piercing to anchor the thing.
Eh, I could see dwarves having difficulty sleeping with them (:
Either way, the rules specifically say:
The owner may voluntarily seize and stow a stone (to keep it safe while she is sleeping, for example), but she loses the benefits of the stone during that time
Thus, there's no guarantee that the item will be safe while sleeping. According to that statement, if you sleep with the ioun stone, it *could* be destroyed, pending the DM's decision.
It doesn't say it won't work either, I'd say there is room for both interpretations.
Using that logic, it doesn't say it can't fix you a cup of coffee -- therefore, it can fix you a cup of coffee (:
Having a small gemstone orbiting your head looks cool, but no one ever answers the question of how a person with one of these (let alone a cloud of them) can kiss without having the object of their affection repeatedly beaned with gemstones, can lean against a wall or lie prostrate on the ground if knocked unconscious, or deal with being grappled without the grappler being beaned.
As Zurai pointed out, it could be like the brim of a particularly large (6 foot diameter!?) sombrero. You could angle it to where you could kiss someone, but it would depend on a number of factors -- how tall are you, how tall is the person you intend to kiss, etc.
Thus, there's no guarantee that the item will be safe while sleeping. According to that statement, if you sleep with the ioun stone, it *could* be destroyed, pending the DM's decision.
Uh, no. I'm about 100% certain that the "keep it safe" is referring to theft, not destruction of a magical item that floats slowly through the air with hardness 5 and couldn't possibly generate enough force to cause ANY damage to itself, let alone 6+. Any DM that arbitrarily destroys your ioun stone just so their bonus doesn't become permanent, like you propose, is being a dick.
Now, it's absolutely a risk for being stolen. Ioun stones are very flashy, bling-like magical items, and leaving them on while you sleep in uncertain company is a recipe for theft. But destruction? Unh uh.
It doesn't say it won't work either, I'd say there is room for both interpretations.Using that logic, it doesn't say it can't fix you a cup of coffee -- therefore, it can fix you a cup of coffee (:
Now im picturing a floating Mr Coffee following you around...
Seekers of Secrets talks a fair amount about this. Their ability to fly around you while avoiding obstacles and other people and pretty much anything.
Uh, no. I'm about 100% certain that the "keep it safe" is referring to theft, not destruction of a magical item that floats slowly through the air with hardness 5 and couldn't possibly generate enough force to cause ANY damage to itself, let alone 6+.
A valid point.
Any DM that arbitrarily destroys your ioun stone just so their bonus doesn't become permanent, like you propose, is being a dick.
Correct, I don't think a DM would "arbitrarily" destroy it. However, there could be circumstances that could destroy it -- if you sleep too near a permanent blade barrier? (-;
I think that if it were to hit something (like a bed post), it would just stop working (as if someone grabbed the item). Therefore, the bonus (and thus the "permanent" status of the bonus it provides) would be negated until it was replaced in the morning -- meaning you'd have to wait 24 hours for the bonus to return.
I think that if it were to hit something (like a bed post), it would just stop working (as if someone grabbed the item).
This is not supported in any way by the rules.
This is not supported in any way by the rules.I think that if it were to hit something (like a bed post), it would just stop working (as if someone grabbed the item).
Is it orbiting the head if it hits an object and cannot proceed? No. Therefore, the item isn't functioning as described. If it's not functioning, then you don't get the bonus.
Is it orbiting the head if it hits an object and cannot proceed? No. Therefore, the item isn't functioning as described. If it's not functioning, then you don't get the bonus.This is not supported in any way by the rules.I think that if it were to hit something (like a bed post), it would just stop working (as if someone grabbed the item).
But orbiting is not required. Floating and within 3 feet are the only requirements. As I've already stated. Also, the rules state that the stone must be grasped or netted to stop working.
But orbiting is not required. Floating and within 3 feet are the only requirements. As I've already stated. Also, the rules state that the stone must be grasped or netted to stop working.Is it orbiting the head if it hits an object and cannot proceed? No. Therefore, the item isn't functioning as described. If it's not functioning, then you don't get the bonus.This is not supported in any way by the rules.I think that if it were to hit something (like a bed post), it would just stop working (as if someone grabbed the item).
Ahh, that's true. Good point.
My standard practice in 3.5 was to just assume they work like headbands of intelligence -- however, The Grandfather is right in that the rules do differ between headbands of vast intelligence. I think the consensus of this thread -- especially given the seeker of secrets rules -- is that you should just treat them like headbands of vast intelligence for all purposes *unless* you stow the ioun stone -- in which case the permanent bonus is gone unless you have the ioun stone work for 24 hours.
I think the consensus of this thread -- especially given the seeker of secrets rules -- is that you should just treat them like headbands of vast intelligence for all purposes *unless* you stow the ioun stone -- in which case the permanent bonus is gone unless you have the ioun stone work for 24 hours.
I definitely agree with this. Stowing the ioun stone immediately removes the permanent bonus and resets it to 0 hours for the purpose of re-instating the bonus.
My standard practice in 3.5 was to just assume they work like headbands of intelligence -- however, The Grandfather is right in that the rules do differ between headbands of vast intelligence. I think the consensus of this thread -- especially given the seeker of secrets rules -- is that you should just treat them like headbands of vast intelligence for all purposes *unless* you stow the ioun stone -- in which case the permanent bonus is gone unless you have the ioun stone work for 24 hours.
Even though it might be posible to sleep with an active ioun stone I will probably require that it be implanted as mentioned in order to grant the skill a headband does. If anything because I love characters with weird tattoos and implants ;)
I do think the skill aspect of scarlet ioun stones should have been mentioned at some point by JJ or JB.
What happens if a lich sets an ioun stone to floating within its own empty skull? Or does that count as stowed?
What happens if a lich sets an ioun stone to floating within its own empty skull? Or does that count as stowed?
Does a ioun stone glow?
If the stone glowed, it'd look very eerie, forget the bonuses...
Ioun stones work for undead. The key that is needed to use them is intelligence.
What about a beholder?
Does it orbit around the head or between the eyestalks?
Considering that the Scarlet Ioun Stone is priced the same as slotless Headband of Int, I would say the intent is for it to act like slotless Headband of Int.
The orbiting mechanic is mostly something unique to Ioun Stones for RP purposes.
Have to agree, an ioun stone with int would have to work just like a headband, and floating around the head while sleep would, to me, just be floating above the head, literally. If you were sleeping face up you'd look up to see a stone making a 1 foot circle centered on your nose. :)
Hopefully this will get errated at some point.