The wizard's player in my Pathfinder game that started last Sunday has decided that his wizard wants to make a fire version of polar ray. Is there a procedure somewhere in the book for doing something like this?
You mean via the use of feats or by researching and creating his own spell?
In 3.5 all you needed was 1 level of Archmage.
Spell research should cover this.
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Have him write down Furnace Ray and deal fire damage rather than cold? Figure out if you want to change the Dex drain or not. I honestly wouldn't charge him anything for this, as long as it was clear he couldn't choose one or the other, but was stuck with the one choice. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone using that spell ever.
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Hey, that's a thought. If the spell could be spontaneously cast with any desired energy type (except sonic I suppose) it might actually see some use.
You mean like the psion energy powers? You're just talking crazy! :)
Spell research should cover this.
You'd charge 9k in gold for him to make a spell do fire rather than cold?
Hey, that's a thought. If the spell could be spontaneously cast with any desired energy type (except sonic I suppose) it might actually see some use.You mean like the psion energy powers? You're just talking crazy! :)
Spell research should cover this.You'd charge 9k in gold for him to make a spell do fire rather than cold?
I really just wanted to know what the procedure was for changing really any energy type listed in a spell to another. I do remember the spell research bit now that I think about it.
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I really just wanted to know what the procedure was for changing really any energy type listed in a spell to another. I do remember the spell research bit now that I think about it.
If he's choosing a spell at level up, just let him learn it as a fire version rather than cold version. If he's looking for the spell inbetween levels, let him buy it for the same price polar ray is. It's not even worth sweating, especially with all the creatures that are cold/fire immune at that level.
I always liked the Energy Admixture feats. It would be nice to see those in the APG.
Spell research should cover this.You'd charge 9k in gold for him to make a spell do fire rather than cold?
No, I would just switch it, The OP asked if there was any thing in the book that might cover it. So I pointed toward spell research
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Btw, might be a bit cheesy, but a level in Elemental Bloodline Sorcerer would change all her energy spells...
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell that deals energy damage, you can change the type of damage to match the type of your bloodline. This also changes the spell's type to match the type of your bloodline.
I always thought the invoker should have that ability as well, and normally just give it to em
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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I let my players' wizards learn whatever version they want - either on levelling up or from buying a scroll. Sonic/Force gets a lower damage dice and they have to differentiate what they learn every day. It's not a big deal and sometimes they know what they'll be up against and can feel extra clever for being so well prepared. I'm running Savage Tide so there's plenty of challenges anyway! And following James Jacob's guidelines, I give them 4 spells per level free so it's even more tempting.
For Sorcerors it's another difficult choice at levelup.
Opens up a lot of personalisation, which is nice, and I've made it a Wizard class ability at level 8 to change the visuals of spells too (Spellcraft 20). The bookworm wizard rolls people up in paper (Hold Monster), and has diagrams of his enemies hanging in the air beside him (Know Vulnerability or whatever). Fun all round!
Hmmm... technically he could make Fire Missiles instead of Magic Missiles - 1d6+1 Fire damage, does not miss. Cool! Must mention that to him.
Opens up a lot of personalisation, which is nice, and I've made it a Wizard class ability at level 8 to change the visuals of spells too (Spellcraft 20).Remove the spellcraft penalty and give this to every spellcaster at level 1. Encourage people to use it.
I assume I'm allowed to descibe the effects of my magic in the manner I see fit. Just like I'm allowed to describe my character's outfits, personality, gear, etc.
Several years ago when I saw a feat or some such that let you choose the appearance I just went "Huh?" It didn't make any sense to me for such a thing to even exist at the time (and still doesn't, really).
Hmmm... technically he could make Fire Missiles instead of Magic Missiles - 1d6+1 Fire damage, does not miss. Cool! Must mention that to him.
Be careful with this. Always be careful when you increase the damage, especially for a class which is already strong (though maybe not in damage). 5d6+5, with no save or chance of missing, seems FAR too high damage potential for a 1st level spell. Compare to Burning Hands, which (though it has a small area) has a max of 5d4 with a save.
In most cases, damage type doesn't matter and because of that, 5d6+5 is often far more powerful than 5d4+5. Allow a reflex for half at least, or make it a touch attack.
Hmmm... technically he could make Fire Missiles instead of Magic Missiles - 1d6+1 Fire damage, does not miss. Cool! Must mention that to him.Be careful with this. Always be careful when you increase the damage, especially for a class which is already strong (though maybe not in damage). 5d6+5, with no save or chance of missing, seems FAR too high damage potential for a 1st level spell. Compare to Burning Hands, which (though it has a small area) has a max of 5d4 with a save.
In most cases, damage type doesn't matter and because of that, 5d6+5 is often far more powerful than 5d4+5. Allow a reflex for half at least, or make it a touch attack.
I'll agree here, it seems out of scale for a 1st level spell.
While true, casters at that level are almost never going to end up dropping all the way to 1st level spells anyway.Furthermore, remember that energy resistance applies to each of those missiles. Fire Resistance 5 yanks 25 points of damage away from them, meaning it's entirely possible somethieng with FR 5 (something alot of creatures have lying in their statblocks largely uncared about because its so minor) would take no damage at all from the spell.
Good points, still not sure I would allow it, seems just too good for a level 1 spell. It has better range the burning hands, more damage and auto hits,Not as good as scorching ray but better then any other level 1 spell
Burning Hands is a terrible spell that nobody casts ever.
I object to that. There was this one combat back in 2E where I cast it multiple times. (The DM didn't make us prepare spells in advance.) I ended up in melee with some feral halflings and realized that, between a casting time of 1 and weapon speed delays, it was almost certain I'd be able to finish casting before they could attack me. 1d3+16 to three targets was better than the fighters were doing.
But seriously, I haven't used it since then, unless I used it for my all-wizard party in a CRPG that had a Dwarven wizard for the tank.
Good points, still not sure I would allow it, seems just too good for a level 1 spell. It has better range the burning hands, more damage and auto hits,Not as good as scorching ray but better then any other level 1 spellBurning Hands is a terrible spell that nobody casts ever. Nevertheless, up to level 5 Flaming Missile does 3d6+3 (13.5) versus BH's 5d4 (13), with BH being more effective on 2+ targets.
Flaming Missile is sometimes marginally better than Magic Missile and often much worse. At any level where you'd actually want to cast either, it's on par with BH against 2 targets, worse against three, and better against one. It's not ever going to replace Scorching Ray, and there's no fight it trivializes at any level. It benchmarks at level 1 any way you look at it.
Adding a touch attack or a save to it would bump it down from "Okay but unspectacular" to "Completely useless at any level."
read the spide swarm thread. Everyone there said it was mandatory :)
As a note, I think there used to be an energy substitution feat in 3.5. To my knowledge the only reason it wont be reprinted is that it was not OGL. It let you memorize a spell as a different energy type with no level adustment I think.
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Energy Substitution was a feat in 3.0's Tome and Blood, and it got changed slightly in the Complete Arcane. It let you pick one energy type (minus sonic in 3.5), and you could cast any spell you knew with an element subtype to match the same subtype you took the feat in, at no bump in levels. I see no problem with using this feat in PRPG.
As a note, I think there used to be an energy substitution feat in 3.5. To my knowledge the only reason it wont be reprinted is that it was not OGL. It let you memorize a spell as a different energy type with no level adustment I think.
You mean this OGL feat called energy substitution?
Energy substitution in the SRD
That's right -- energy substitution is OGL and freely available already. Now you just have to "update" it to pathfinder... or as I like to call it "cut and paste" :D
As a note, I think there used to be an energy substitution feat in 3.5. To my knowledge the only reason it wont be reprinted is that it was not OGL. It let you memorize a spell as a different energy type with no level adustment I think.You mean this OGL feat called energy substitution?
Energy substitution in the SRD
That's right -- energy substitution is OGL and freely available already. Now you just have to "update" it to pathfinder... or as I like to call it "cut and paste" :D
I admit, I didn't actually look, and didn't have access to the SRD when I posted that (blocked at work)
I have seen like 5 other people say it wasn't OGL, so I assumed it wasn't.
No problem it's a common misconception, just wanted to clarify that it is a misconception.
No problem it's a common misconception, just wanted to clarify that it is a misconception.
Although, it is worth noting that the Energy Substition Feat in the SRD is listed in a section detailing powers and feats for deities, not PCs. Granted, Energy Substition in the SRD is close to Energy Substition in Complete Arcane. The only difference being the deity-related feat also allows substituting sonic energy.
No way would I allow that in my game.
It's also in the "Miniatures Handbook", but called 'ENERGY AFFINITY'. The prerequisites also require that you have the ability to cast a spell of each energy type and I believe it also excludes Sonic.
Not using sonic is hardly a hinderance as you can just as easily pick Acid and avoid most problems.
There is also a 'Metamagic Rod of Energy Substitution' in the "Magic Item Compendium" if it hasn't been mentioned already.
Same feat was in the 3.0 Magic of farun as well
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Burning Hands is a terrible spell that nobody casts ever.
Although I can only assume this is a hyperbole, its a terrible assumption. Used tactically, it can be very useful. I have a player in my current pfrpg campaign (Elf Sorcerer 8) who uses it to hit multiple enemies (especially those nasty trolls) at angles while avoiding damaging his allies who don't have flaming weapons. It worked quite effectively last night.
As for Energy Substitution from com. arcane, I think it's a great feat that should be encouraged (especially for evokers!). As for the crossover to PFRPG just drop the Knowledge (Arcana) ranks requirement to 2. While I'm not quite sure why [sonic] was dropped from the feats possible choices, I don't see any problem with re-adding it (especially for a siren-like caster).
Lastly, to the OP, like others have suggested, have him learn it as a spell of that energy descriptor as a completely separate spell (i.e. he could have Inferno Ray AND Polar Ray if he wanted, but as separate spells in his/her spellbook).
Hmmm... technically he could make Fire Missiles instead of Magic Missiles - 1d6+1 Fire damage, does not miss. Cool! Must mention that to him.
None of the feats or items mentioned increase the damage due to energy type, Fire Missiles would still do 1D4+1. Also, the SRD version of the ENERGY SUBSTITUTION cannot change a spell that isn't Fire, Electricity, Acid, Cold or Sonic, so Fire Missiles are out unless you use the Complete Arcane or other source.
Burning Hands is a terrible spell that nobody casts ever.
*beats dead horse* To chime in on this with a less numbers oriented view...
I think Burning Hands does it's job pretty well, low level, short range AoE that does enough damage to take out thugs until you grab Scorching Ray and Fireball. (or whatever) It really depends on the theme/build of the caster though, I usually prefer to take Sleep as a low level offense, but it too becomes relatively worthless over a seemingly short period of time.
Color Spray is better at the levels where you'd actually want to cast Burning Hands. The only exception is when you're actually fighting trolls, and even then you're probably still better off using Color Spray.Burning Hands is a terrible spell that nobody casts ever.Although I can only assume this is a hyperbole, its a terrible assumption. Used tactically, it can be very useful. I have a player in my current pfrpg campaign (Elf Sorcerer 8) who uses it to hit multiple enemies (especially those nasty trolls) at angles while avoiding damaging his allies who don't have flaming weapons. It worked quite effectively last night.
Until they pass the DC16 will save for no effect.
Don't get me wrong, I love color spray, but sometimes damage IS the way to go.
Something I've toyed with doing, and may implement, is allowing all energy spells to have an 'evolved' version.
Basically, it would work like this :
Burning Hands
School evocation [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range 15 ft.
Area cone-shaped burst
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes
A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Flammable materials burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.
Elemental Hands
School evocation [elemental]; Level sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range 15 ft.
Area cone-shaped burst
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes
A cone of elemental energy (chosen at casting time) shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the effect takes 1d4 points of elemental damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Secondary effects are based on element (flame may catch clothing or flammable objects on fire, metal armor may become heated by electricity, exposed liquids may become frozen by cold, exposed equipment may be damaged by acid, for example).
Special: The spell gains the energy descriptor of the element chosen at casting time for the duration of that casting. If the caster chooses a non-elemental energy (negative energy, positive energy, sonic, force) then reduce the damage dice to 1d3 per level (maximum 5d3)
This is sort of like building the old energy substitution feat into the spell formula, making it take up one level more, but allowing the flexibility to cast the spell with any elemental effect you want. You trade flexibility for increased spell level cost.
Then again, I've also toyed with the idea of doing away with most of the specific element evocation spells and replacing them with something like this :
Elemental Cone
School evocation [elemental]; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range 15 ft.
Area cone-shaped burst
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes
A cone of elemental energy (chosen at casting time) shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the effect takes 1d4 points of elemental damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Secondary effects are based on element (flame may catch clothing or flammable objects on fire, metal armor may become heated by electricity, exposed liquids may become frozen by cold, exposed equipment may be damaged by acid, for example).
Special: The spell gains the energy descriptor of the element chosen at casting time for the duration of that casting. If the caster chooses a non-elemental energy (negative energy, positive energy, sonic, force) then reduce the damage dice to 1d3 per level (maximum 5d3)
Elemental Ray
School evocation [Elemental]; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect ray
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
A ray of elemental energy (chosen at casting time) shoots from your pointing finger. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack with the ray to deal damage to a target. The ray deals 1d4 points of the specific energy damage to the target on a successful attack.
Special: The spell gains the energy descriptor of the element chosen at casting time for the duration of that casting. If the caster chooses a non-elemental energy (negative energy, positive energy, sonic, force) then reduce the damage dice to 1d3 per level (maximum 5d3)
Elemental Grasp
School evocation [elemental]; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target creature or object touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
When you cast this spell, your hand becomes wreathed in pure essence of a single element (chosen at the time of casting). Your successful melee touch attack deals 1d6 points of elemental damage per caster level (maximum 5d6). The exact energy component may give circumstancial bonuses on the attack (such as electricity granting a +3 to attack rolls if the target is wearing metal armor, or positive energy gaining a +3 to attack rolls vs undead).
Special: The spell gains the energy descriptor of the element chosen at casting time for the duration of that casting. If the caster chooses a non-elemental energy (negative energy, positive energy, sonic, force) then reduce the damage dice to 1d4 per level (maximum 5d4)
And then putting in an 'elemental' spell at each level that follows the same pattern, based off of existing element spells. I don't think it would be all that unbalancing. The big thing I think it would do is allow spell-casters to memorize/learn some of those utility spells that they normally skip because they need X, Y, and Z elemental spell in their list/spell-book in case they run into A, B, or C.
"Burning Hands is a terrible spell that nobody casts ever."
*more dead horse beating*
A level 4 crossblooded Primal and Red Draconic character that sits at my table likes it. A half-orc with the racial favored class of sorcerer (forgot what it was called) that adds +2 damage to fire spells....
That means he casts a level 1 spell that does 4d4+10 damage to several creatures...then uses alchemist's fires as components that he crafts himself to make one of the creatures hit catch on fire.
Whether or not it's amazing on paper (and I like it), it's some awesome roleplaying. He's quite the pyro.
But this gets me thinking about a Ray of Flame (ray of frost variation)...1d3+4 damage for free, every turn? Sounds good.