I don´t. I cannot put my finger on it exactly why....
It seems too strong - considering the progressive cost of magical enhancement boni and the fact that the Divine Bond enhancements STACK with them.... and are reconfigurable.
Further, a Paladin player will not exactly rage upon finding say a Holy Avenger or another really cool weapon (+5 or higher total enhancement) - since it will actually hurt him because it is not as versatile for him than say a straight +4 weapon.
If however the high-level Paladin happends to find a really REALLY cool weapon - say a minor artifact, that will be actually kind of bittersweet, since one of his best abilities (Divine Bond) is now pretty much useless.
What do you think?
honestly I threw the paladin in the trashcan, I like most things paizo has done, but the paladin is too outbalanced, mostly that is because of the smite ability.. anyway I gave it a look.
I can see the ability is very powerful, but I cant see why finding a holy avenger or artifact weapon would bother the paladin ?
It seems to me the paladin gets up to 6 free floating boni it can use for enhancement bonus up to + 5 OR for special abilities equaling up to + 6 equivalent according to the DMG magical item section.
so a + 5 holy sword could still have keen (+1), speed (+3), flaming (+1) and evil outsider bane (+1) added.. or am I missing something entirely here ?
yes in my opinion overpowered, but I dont see the paladin player complaining.
Let me clarify: Say a level 17 Paladin (max +5 Divine Bond enhancements) finds a +5 holy longsword (total +7). This will be actually of less use to him than just a +5 longsword, since +10 total is the limit anyway and with the +5 weapon he is more versatile (if he does not need the holy enhancement he can choose sth. other instead).
That is assuming that his 4/day (17 minutes each) uses of this ability are enough to cover all reasonably tough daily encounters.
And if he should happen to find an weapon or artifact with +10 (or even higher, in case of trhe artifact) enhancement bonus, his Divine Bond is of no more use to him at all.
If the Divine Bond allowed the weapon to exceed the +10 limit it would be worth taking. As it stands, all it does is save you money. That's it. Lame.
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We're talking Level 17 here, serioursly. 9th level spells just came online for casters. The Pally's best feature has nothing to do with this bond; it is his redic saving throws and his 7d6 healing self a swift action; oh and his +6 to hit/AC for +17 damage vs evil guys.
Powerful things happen at Level 17; being able to make your bonus the full +10 a little early is far from overpowering; in fact, a normal 17th level warrior type can do the same just by getting a +6 keyword-buffed weapon and have the cleric GMW his weapon to +4 (for 16 hours, pretty much all day).
in fact, a normal 17th level warrior type can do the same just by getting a +6 keyword-buffed weapon and have the cleric GMW his weapon to +4 (for 16 hours, pretty much all day).
He would have to have a +7 weapon though, since a +1 enhancement is mandatory before any other enchantments can be added.
Further, the enhancement from greater magic weapon does not help to bypass DR, which is a big advantage of a +5 weapon in PF: it ignores all DR types.
I love the Weapon Spirit. It does not make higher-enchanted weapons less useful, nor does it "only save you money". It's incredibly versatile. It allows you to tailor any weapon to the situation at hand, even your bare fists if needed. It's not like you're forced to bond only a single weapon -- you can use the bond on any weapon you want, even on multiple weapons at once if you have multiple uses. And it doesn't make expensive weapons suck, because it's only usable a very, very limited amount of time per day. A +10 equivalent weapon is usable 14,400 rounds per day.
two ways to go about this I suppose :
1) you allow the paladin to exceed the + 10 limit for a limited time
2) you can allow the paladin to temporarily shut other abilities down so he doesn't exceed + 10 in that way it wont get too powerful, but retains the versatility
I dont think a powerful weapon should be a hindrance to this ability, the quest for a paladin's trademark holy sword is a classic tradition I would like to keep alive.
I love the Weapon Spirit. It does not make higher-enchanted weapons less useful, nor does it "only save you money". It's incredibly versatile. It allows you to tailor any weapon to the situation at hand, even your bare fists if needed. It's not like you're forced to bond only a single weapon -- you can use the bond on any weapon you want, even on multiple weapons at once if you have multiple uses. And it doesn't make expensive weapons suck, because it's only usable a very, very limited amount of time per day. A +10 equivalent weapon is usable 14,400 rounds per day.
The sword-and-board dual-wielding smiter paladin in my party is planning on using his weapon bond to enchant his shield as a weapon.
I'm totally excited for it, though I know he's going to try to pretend that Bashing is a "weapon enchant." :P
I love the Weapon Spirit. It does not make higher-enchanted weapons less useful, nor does it "only save you money". It's incredibly versatile. It allows you to tailor any weapon to the situation at hand, even your bare fists if needed. It's not like you're forced to bond only a single weapon -- you can use the bond on any weapon you want, even on multiple weapons at once if you have multiple uses. And it doesn't make expensive weapons suck, because it's only usable a very, very limited amount of time per day. A +10 equivalent weapon is usable 14,400 rounds per day.The sword-and-board dual-wielding smiter paladin in my party is planning on using his weapon bond to enchant his shield as a weapon.
I'm totally excited for it, though I know he's going to try to pretend that Bashing is a "weapon enchant." :P
I did not consider this, that could work out very nicely actually. once I readjusted the paladin to my personal tastes and powerlevel, I might actually allow players to enchant a shield as an actual shield as well for defensive rather than offensive benefits.
I did not consider this, that could work out very nicely actually. once I readjusted the paladin to my personal tastes and powerlevel, I might actually allow players to enchant a shield as an actual shield as well for defensive rather than offensive benefits.I love the Weapon Spirit. It does not make higher-enchanted weapons less useful, nor does it "only save you money". It's incredibly versatile. It allows you to tailor any weapon to the situation at hand, even your bare fists if needed. It's not like you're forced to bond only a single weapon -- you can use the bond on any weapon you want, even on multiple weapons at once if you have multiple uses. And it doesn't make expensive weapons suck, because it's only usable a very, very limited amount of time per day. A +10 equivalent weapon is usable 14,400 rounds per day.The sword-and-board dual-wielding smiter paladin in my party is planning on using his weapon bond to enchant his shield as a weapon.
I'm totally excited for it, though I know he's going to try to pretend that Bashing is a "weapon enchant." :P
Do you mean enchant the shield with an actual AC bonus?
If so you might want to remember smiting gives them a decent AC bonus. You may never hit them if they get to AC bumps. If I misunderstood then nevermind.
I do think the power is very good, I'm not sure it compares with Smite when it comes to the Paladin as a whole.
Most importantly, I think it's relatively balanced with the mount ability, which is what it should be measured against. Both are very nice to have.
I did not consider this, that could work out very nicely actually. once I readjusted the paladin to my personal tastes and powerlevel, I might actually allow players to enchant a shield as an actual shield as well for defensive rather than offensive benefits.I love the Weapon Spirit. It does not make higher-enchanted weapons less useful, nor does it "only save you money". It's incredibly versatile. It allows you to tailor any weapon to the situation at hand, even your bare fists if needed. It's not like you're forced to bond only a single weapon -- you can use the bond on any weapon you want, even on multiple weapons at once if you have multiple uses. And it doesn't make expensive weapons suck, because it's only usable a very, very limited amount of time per day. A +10 equivalent weapon is usable 14,400 rounds per day.The sword-and-board dual-wielding smiter paladin in my party is planning on using his weapon bond to enchant his shield as a weapon.
I'm totally excited for it, though I know he's going to try to pretend that Bashing is a "weapon enchant." :P
Do you mean enchant the shield with an actual AC bonus?
If so you might want to remember smiting gives them a decent AC bonus. You may never hit them if they get to AC bumps. If I misunderstood then nevermind.
no, you did not misunderstand.. though I did say before I threw the paladin as is in the trashbin.
The smite and aura of smiting is too much, seems to me Paizo went overboard with the paladin there.. even in 3.5 paladins did very well.
I will have another look at it, though I am sure I wont use aura of smiting.. and fairly sure I wont use smite as is.
personally a single devastating attack appeals more to me than what it is designed to do now.
even in 3.5 paladins did very well.
They did? That's news to me. In 3.5, Paladins were godawful. Not as bad as Fighters, but still godawful. Smite sucked, the horse sucked, lay on hands sucked, remove disease weekly sucked, and the spells sucked unless you allowed splats. About the only thing they had going was +Cha to Saves, which is why Paladin was considered a 2-level class in 3.5.
I did not consider this, that could work out very nicely actually. once I readjusted the paladin to my personal tastes and powerlevel, I might actually allow players to enchant a shield as an actual shield as well for defensive rather than offensive benefits.I love the Weapon Spirit. It does not make higher-enchanted weapons less useful, nor does it "only save you money". It's incredibly versatile. It allows you to tailor any weapon to the situation at hand, even your bare fists if needed. It's not like you're forced to bond only a single weapon -- you can use the bond on any weapon you want, even on multiple weapons at once if you have multiple uses. And it doesn't make expensive weapons suck, because it's only usable a very, very limited amount of time per day. A +10 equivalent weapon is usable 14,400 rounds per day.The sword-and-board dual-wielding smiter paladin in my party is planning on using his weapon bond to enchant his shield as a weapon.
I'm totally excited for it, though I know he's going to try to pretend that Bashing is a "weapon enchant." :P
Do you mean enchant the shield with an actual AC bonus?
If so you might want to remember smiting gives them a decent AC bonus. You may never hit them if they get to AC bumps. If I misunderstood then nevermind.no, you did not misunderstand.. though I did say before I threw the paladin as is in the trashbin.
The smite and aura of smiting is too much, seems to me Paizo went overboard with the paladin there.. even in 3.5 paladins did very well.
Pally's were ok, up to a certain level in 3.5, and then they fell off. The last one I saw make it to about level 9 before he just switched over to fighter. The aura of smiting looks vicious on paper. I am anxious to see it in action*. The smiting was not so bad. The real issue for me were the mercies. I can get around getting hit to an extent, but when all my status effects are negated it makes for an easier fight.
*The last paladin never used it so I never got to see how it would work.
I will have another look at it, though I am sure I wont use aura of smiting.. and fairly sure I wont use smite as is.
personally a single devastating attack appeals more to me than what it is designed to do now.
Smiting can be dealt with. I have had to DM against it, now if you want to allow the paladin to walk right up to your BBEG and get full round attacks, that might be an issue. Part of the challenge for my players is getting close enough to do anything.
he could use his shield hand I suppose, not sure it is even needed.. though personally I do not like the ability being equalized with uber fasthealing. another dislike for the paladin in my book.
Given a choice between the mount and the bond is very campaign specific. Most of the campaigns I have played in over the years a mount is nothing more than bait for random encounters. In an situtation other than open terrain the mount is useless and usually left behind. All of my 3.0 paladins would have preferred the weapon bond, I would have gotten to use it.
Doug
If you can make it to 10th level, a dragonne.