A few rules questions


Rules Questions


The following things have come up, and I'd like some clarifications, so any help would be appreciated :)

Mnemonic Enchanter: The wording confuses us... Can it bring any spell back that was cast within 1 round prior to the casting of Mnemonic Enchanter, because if so, that limits its use quite a lot. Are we reading it wrong?

Earth Glide. What exactly can and cannot be bypassed by this. Our party druid is very fond of it, and we can't find any limitations in the core rulebook that would prevent her from using it to infiltrate a castle for instance? It seems incredibly powerful.

The spell "Floating Disk"... Our wizard has used it to cross lakes etc., as there doesn't seem to be specified that water impacts on the disk at all. As a GM, I find this highly dubious, as the wording "from the ground" can be read as many things. How do you all go about with this spell?

Can a sorcerer/wizard use any spells in the appropriate schools when casting Shadow Conjuration/Evocation, or only the spells they know/have in their spellbook?

We have a bard with Leadership feat and a cohort. His leadership score is 11. He is level 8. Are we correct in that his cohort is level 6?

More to come as we dig further in the book... Hope you can all help us out!


2. Not much
3. ground is dirt not water
4. yes, any spell that is appropriate


Here are my opinions.

soren kristensen 539 wrote:
Mnemonic Enchanter: The wording confuses us... Can it bring any spell back that was cast within 1 round prior to the casting of Mnemonic Enchanter, because if so, that limits its use quite a lot. Are we reading it wrong?

It can either bring back a 3rd level spell (or lower) you just cast in the prior round, or be used to effectively replace a fourth level slot with up to 3 levels of spells instead.

soren kristensen 539 wrote:
Earth Glide. What exactly can and cannot be bypassed by this. Our party druid is very fond of it, and we can't find any limitations in the core rulebook that would prevent her from using it to infiltrate a castle for instance? It seems incredibly powerful.

It lets you pass right through stone, rock, dirt, earth, etc. Can't go through metal, wood, air, or water with it, but otherwise you are good to go. Using it to infiltrate a castle is a great use. Of course, the druid would be on his/her own though, since it doesn't create a tunnel.

soren kristensen 539 wrote:
The spell "Floating Disk"... Our wizard has used it to cross lakes etc., as there doesn't seem to be specified that water impacts on the disk at all. As a GM, I find this highly dubious, as the wording "from the ground" can be read as many things. How do you all go about with this spell?

I'd probably allow the disk to go across water, but that may not be RAW. Since the disk follows the caster, I don't think the caster could ride it. He could get on the disk, but it would remain stationary. However, if the caster could water-walk, I could see using a disk to transport 1 squeezed medium sized creature, since it is only 3' in diameter.

soren kristensen 539 wrote:
Can a sorcerer/wizard use any spells in the appropriate schools when casting Shadow Conjuration/Evocation, or only the spells they know/have in their spellbook?

I read that as any appropriate spell, and not limited to spells known.

soren kristensen 539 wrote:
We have a bard with Leadership feat and a cohort. His leadership score is 11. He is level 8. Are we correct in that his cohort is level 6?

Yes. A cohort must be two or more levels lower than your current level.


FarmerBob wrote:


soren kristensen 539 wrote:
The spell "Floating Disk"... Our wizard has used it to cross lakes etc., as there doesn't seem to be specified that water impacts on the disk at all. As a GM, I find this highly dubious, as the wording "from the ground" can be read as many things. How do you all go about with this spell?

I'd probably allow the disk to go across water, but that may not be RAW. Since the disk follows the caster, I don't think the caster could ride it. He could get on the disk, but it would remain stationary. However, if the caster could water-walk, I could see using a disk to transport 1 squeezed medium sized creature, since it is only 3' in diameter.

Actually you can direct the floating disc to move:

" If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you."

However it does say surface and not ground, and water has a surface... so I could see that now that I've doubled checked the spell.

I wouldn't require the squeezing though... after all a person doesn't take up a real 5'x5' square and the horse probably has less riding room itself. You can sit on a chair with much less area without squeezing too.


anyone got a reference to earth glide? I though it was not usable on worked stone. which a castle would be.


Abraham spalding wrote:
FarmerBob wrote:


soren kristensen 539 wrote:
The spell "Floating Disk"... Our wizard has used it to cross lakes etc., as there doesn't seem to be specified that water impacts on the disk at all. As a GM, I find this highly dubious, as the wording "from the ground" can be read as many things. How do you all go about with this spell?

I'd probably allow the disk to go across water, but that may not be RAW. Since the disk follows the caster, I don't think the caster could ride it. He could get on the disk, but it would remain stationary. However, if the caster could water-walk, I could see using a disk to transport 1 squeezed medium sized creature, since it is only 3' in diameter.

Actually you can direct the floating disc to move:

" If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you."

However it does say surface and not ground, and water has a surface... so I could see that now that I've doubled checked the spell.

I wouldn't require the squeezing though... after all a person doesn't take up a real 5'x5' square and the horse probably has less riding room itself. You can sit on a chair with much less area without squeezing too.

actually the spell discription states ground... not surface


Abraham spalding wrote:


Actually you can direct the floating disc to move:

" If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you."

However it does say surface and not ground, and water has a surface... so I could see that now that I've doubled checked the spell.

I wouldn't require the squeezing though... after all a person doesn't take up a real 5'x5' square and the horse probably has less riding room itself. You can sit on a chair with much less area without squeezing too.

I read the "otherwise directed" as referring to the distance it maintains, and not that it can travel independently.

I'd consider the 3'x3' disk squeezed since you are limited in movement. You can't move across the entire 5'x5' area of the square. You certainly can move your arms and upper body though. This is definitely a non-traditional interpretation of squeezed. Maybe it would be better to deny the person their dex instead. In any case, fighting from a disk should be more difficult than fighting off it.


FarmerBob wrote:

Here are my opinions.

soren kristensen 539 wrote:
Mnemonic Enchanter: The wording confuses us... Can it bring any spell back that was cast within 1 round prior to the casting of Mnemonic Enchanter, because if so, that limits its use quite a lot. Are we reading it wrong?

It can either bring back a 3rd level spell (or lower) you just cast in the prior round, or be used to effectively replace a fourth level slot with up to 3 levels of spells instead.

It has a 10 minute casting time though. So I cast a "Fireball" and then want another.. I need to make the decision immediately upon casting the fireball AND spend 10 mins getting it? Seems completely useless to me. Ah well.


Joseph Raiten wrote:
anyone got a reference to earth glide? I though it was not usable on worked stone. which a castle would be.

Bestiary, Pg 122.


soren kristensen 539 wrote:


It has a 10 minute casting time though. So I cast a "Fireball" and then want another.. I need to make the decision immediately upon casting the fireball AND spend 10 mins getting it? Seems completely useless to me. Ah well.

Yup, it isn't something you'd generally use in combat. You could use it if the fireball ended combat though.

Of course, if it is highly likely you'd want another fireball, you can always use that 4th level slot to prepare fireball instead of Mnemonic Enhancer...


FarmerBob wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:


Actually you can direct the floating disc to move:

" If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you."

However it does say surface and not ground, and water has a surface... so I could see that now that I've doubled checked the spell.

I wouldn't require the squeezing though... after all a person doesn't take up a real 5'x5' square and the horse probably has less riding room itself. You can sit on a chair with much less area without squeezing too.

I read the "otherwise directed" as referring to the distance it maintains, and not that it can travel independently.

I'd consider the 3'x3' disk squeezed since you are limited in movement. You can't move across the entire 5'x5' area of the square. You certainly can move your arms and upper body though. This is definitely a non-traditional interpretation of squeezed. Maybe it would be better to deny the person their dex instead. In any case, fighting from a disk should be more difficult than fighting off it.

And standing on it? Sitting could probably use it's own thing, but I wouldn't make it worse than prone personally.

"The disk also winks out if you move beyond its range or try to take the disk more than 3 feet away from the surface beneath it."

On the movement issue:
"The disk floats approximately 3 feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you. The disk winks out of existence when the spell duration expires."

It has it's own move speed and can be directed.


FarmerBob wrote:
soren kristensen 539 wrote:


It has a 10 minute casting time though. So I cast a "Fireball" and then want another.. I need to make the decision immediately upon casting the fireball AND spend 10 mins getting it? Seems completely useless to me. Ah well.

Yup, it isn't something you'd generally use in combat. You could use it if the fireball ended combat though.

Of course, if it is highly likely you'd want another fireball, you can always use that 4th level slot to prepare fireball instead of Mnemonic Enhancer...

Here's the thing with the enhancer:

You cast it at the start of the day and with those extra spell slots you take:

Mage Armor, Mount and Unseen Servant

Instead of just getting a fireball out of the slot.

Basically you trade in a 4th level spell for 3 spell levels, much like a ring of spell storing would hold.

EDIT: Not directed at FarmerBob, just a general statement of the use of the spell... using quotes to reference what I'm talking about.


Abraham spalding wrote:

It has it's own move speed and can be directed.

I read the same language, and interpreted it to mean that it follows you no faster than your normal speed.

I'm not totally sold on it being completely directable, but if it does work that way, would it be a move action to redirect an active spell then?

It might make for an interesting tactic to manipulate the battlefield terrain using one or more floating disks. You can position it to block charges, hold doors open/closed, have them carry a roaring fire to a flammable spot, etc. Much more useful than an invisible porter.


Not saying this definitive (or even relevant) for PF, but it looks like this was a common issue in 3.5. WotC even a FAQ about it.

Can you ride your own Tenser’s floating disk?

No. While you could command your Tenser’s floating disk to move close enough for you to sit upon it, it has no ability to move under its own power. It can follow you only at a maximum rate equal to your normal speed.


FarmerBob wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:

It has it's own move speed and can be directed.

I read the same language, and interpreted it to mean that it follows you no faster than your normal speed.

I'm not totally sold on it being completely directable, but if it does work that way, would it be a move action to redirect an active spell then?

It might make for an interesting tactic to manipulate the battlefield terrain using one or more floating disks. You can position it to block charges, hold doors open/closed, have them carry a roaring fire to a flammable spot, etc. Much more useful than an invisible porter.

On the redirecting yes it would take a move action since it doesn't state in the spell that it has any other method of redirection... in the end all you gain would be:

Height advantage -- standing on it would put you at about the same height as a person mounted on a horse or pony

"prestige" advantage -- Having your own magical floating chair might be something the character goes for on a "I'm better than you cause I don't walk" mentality. RP only and likely to upset the fighter but still there.

Not touching the ground -- In the few cases you simply don't want to touch the ground for whatever reason (slime, acid, needing a stepping stool) it would be useful.

I could see the floating disc creating difficult terrain at least... it's doesn't seem very visible to me and it can't dodge or shift but it would be in the way until they get on it.


soren kristensen 539 wrote:


Mnemonic Enchanter: The wording confuses us... Can it bring any spell back that was cast within 1 round prior to the casting of Mnemonic Enchanter, because if so, that limits its use quite a lot. Are we reading it wrong?

Nah, they've written it wrong. It's basically a holdover from 1st edition. Just use the other use of the spell.

-James


Thank you all for the responses!

One more thing has come up: Paladin can channel positive energy like a cleric of the same level. No more 3 levels below for the paladin? He'll be so happy if this is indeed not a typo!

Sovereign Court

soren kristensen 539 wrote:


Earth Glide. What exactly can and cannot be bypassed by this. Our party druid is very fond of it, and we can't find any limitations in the core rulebook that would prevent her from using it to infiltrate a castle for instance? It seems incredibly powerful.

It is pretty good. However, in a world where magic exists, mundane means of thwarting it is common knowledge. For example, if you really don't want someone earth gliding through your floor, reinforce it with iron (like rebar in concrete). If you don't want people teleporting into your secret base, make several rooms look identical, and rearrange the features of your real base. Use Forbiddance, Dimensional Lock, etc etc.

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