Dunno, can't seem to find anything that would back them getting 1.5xstr to all attacks.
Since it says Full STR bonus to all attacks I would be happy with having the normal 1xstr for all attacks during the flurry of blows. A normal Two Weapon Fighter only get's half strength on all off hand attacks and someone wielding a greatsword doesn't benefit from the additional attacks.
I know I would give 1.5xstr if they made an attack as a standard action using the quarter staff.
*snip*
improved unarmed strike for a monk states that a monks unarmed strike is never considered off hand. does this mean that all unarmed strikes during a power attack flurry get +2 damage per -1 to hit?
*snip*
As power attack requires no action itself I do not see why you could not use power attack on a flurry. So yes... on a "Power Flurry" you'd get +2 damage/-1 to hit on all attacks made as part of the flurry of blows.
I have a more difficult question:
when calculating the bonus/penalty with Power Attack for a flurrying Monk, would you use the 'real' BaB or the 'virtual' BaB ?
That is, a 4th level Monk (+3 real BaB, +4 BaB when flurrying) using Power Attack during a Flurry of Blows, would have -1 hit/+2 damage (because his BaB is effectively only +3), or -2 hit/+4 damage (since he is 'emulating' the BaB of a Fighter, +4)?
Personally, I think that no matter the action, you stick to your real BaB. This on the long run actually would favor the Monk (IMHO), since the penalty to hit would not be very high, and since he is not using a two-handed weapon (where the improvement to damage is more significative, with a ratio of 3:1), the damage would still be good (since it applies to ALL his attacks).
What would you think ?
As the Monk write up says "full strength bonus" for both the weapons and unarmed strikes, whatever you use for one you would use for the other.
In this case I think its talking about Not having to use the regular "off hand" penalty of .5 str bonus that one would ordinarly receive for off hand attacks.
Your full strength bonus is not x1.5. Your full strength bonus is x1.0.
x1.5 would be greater than your full strength bonus.
just my .02.
-S
IIRC, there is a thread where this particular topic was discussed. I don't remember its conclusion, but one of the arguments was the following:
The staff can be used as a two-handed weapon or a two-headed weapon.
If you use it as a two-headed weapon, you can use the TWF-like ability of Flurry to get the additional attacks, but you "only" have 1xStr on your attacks. Perhaps even 0.5 on the off-hand end (see below).
If you use it as a two-handed weapon, you get 1.5xStr but TWF can't be applied, so you'd Flurry with a bit less efficiency (you wouldn't get the additional attacks granted by TWF although you'd get the improved BAB).
Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaves, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
About the PA/BAB/Flurry question, I'd use the modified BAB (when a monk flurries, his BAB changes). If they hadn't wanted the monk to use a modified BAB, they'd have written that rule differently (giving a level-dependent bonus instead).
...FWIW
I have a more difficult question:
when calculating the bonus/penalty with Power Attack for a flurrying Monk, would you use the 'real' BaB or the 'virtual' BaB ?
That is, a 4th level Monk (+3 real BaB, +4 BaB when flurrying) using Power Attack during a Flurry of Blows, would have -1 hit/+2 damage (because his BaB is effectively only +3), or -2 hit/+4 damage (since he is 'emulating' the BaB of a Fighter, +4)?
Personally, I think that no matter the action, you stick to your real BaB. This on the long run actually would favor the Monk (IMHO), since the penalty to hit would not be very high, and since he is not using a two-handed weapon (where the improvement to damage is more significative, with a ratio of 3:1), the damage would still be good (since it applies to ALL his attacks).
What would you think ?
Wait... what?
Your "virtual" BAB is higher for the purposes of your flurry of blows. Taking the -1 penalty to hit from Power Attack on a flurry of blows is going to be no different than a fighter using two weapon fighting, double slash, and power attack. The Monk actually comes out better than the fighter in this instance as he can spend the ki point to get an extra attack at his highest bab.
Were you to take a single power attack using your "real" BAB, your over all to hit would be even lower. Using your "real" BAB progression for extra attacks is going to be far worse and NOT benefit the Monk in the long run.
Wait... what?
Your "virtual" BAB is higher for the purposes of your flurry of blows. Taking the -1 penalty to hit from Power Attack on a flurry of blows is going to be no different than a fighter using two weapon fighting, double slash, and power attack. The Monk actually comes out better than the fighter in this instance as he can spend the ki point to get an extra attack at his highest bab.
Were you to take a single power attack using your "real" BAB, your over all to hit would be even lower. Using your "real" BAB progression for extra attacks is going to be far worse and NOT benefit the Monk in the long run.
I understand what you are saying; in fact, it is one of the two interpretations I wrote above. I merely think that:
Power Attack (PRD -> Feats):
"When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by -1 and the bonus to damage increases to +2."
Flurry of Blows, Monks (PRD -> Classes):
"For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus."
It's the last sentence that makes me wonder if a Monk can effectively use the higher BaB for the purpose of Power Attack - I personally think he cannot, but I see some reasons on those who think that he can (for example, the sentence 'for the purpose of these attacks' can be read as "these attacks can use Power Attack with the Fighter 'virtual' BaB").
Of course I'm not completely sure on either of these.
Wait... what?
Your "virtual" BAB is higher for the purposes of your flurry of blows. Taking the -1 penalty to hit from Power Attack on a flurry of blows is going to be no different than a fighter using two weapon fighting, double slash, and power attack. The Monk actually comes out better than the fighter in this instance as he can spend the ki point to get an extra attack at his highest bab.
Were you to take a single power attack using your "real" BAB, your over all to hit would be even lower. Using your "real" BAB progression for extra attacks is going to be far worse and NOT benefit the Monk in the long run.
I understand what you are saying; in fact, it is one of the two interpretations I wrote above. I merely think that:
Power Attack (PRD -> Feats):
"When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by -1 and the bonus to damage increases to +2."Flurry of Blows, Monks (PRD -> Classes):
"For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus."It's the last sentence that makes me wonder if a Monk can effectively use the higher BaB for the purpose of Power Attack - I personally think he cannot, but I see some reasons on those who think that he can (for example, the sentence 'for the purpose of these attacks' can be read as "these attacks can use Power Attack with the Fighter 'virtual' BaB").
Of course I'm not completely sure on either of these.
Ah... I see.
For the purposes of Power Attack improving it would look at your actual BAB as that is what "qualifies" for the improvement.
A 20th level Monk on a flurry has the same base attack progression as a 20th level Fighter using the full two-weapon fighting feat chain. The Fighter using Power Attack -5/+10 is going to have greater damage per hit, but the Monk makes up for this somewhat by spending a ki point to get another attack at the highest BAB. Eight attacks at 2d10 +6 (power attack) +STR is not bad. :)
Over all though a Fighter is always going to do more damage than a Monk generally speaking.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I understand what you are saying; in fact, it is one of the two interpretations I wrote above. I merely think that:Power Attack (PRD -> Feats):
"When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by -1 and the bonus to damage increases to +2."Flurry of Blows, Monks (PRD -> Classes):
"For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus."It's the last sentence that makes me wonder if a Monk can effectively use the higher BaB for the purpose of Power Attack - I personally think he cannot, but I see some reasons on those who think that he can (for example, the sentence 'for the purpose of these attacks' can be read as "these attacks can use Power Attack with the Fighter 'virtual' BaB").
Of course I'm not completely sure on either of these.
For me, it's clear that you use the higher BAB: the description of the monk's ability doesn't include words like "bonus", "modifier", or some such. It explicitly says that it changes the monk's BAB. According to PA's description:
- round 1, regular attack and move from our level-12 monk. BAB is +9- round 2, flurry. BAB reaches +12 for these attacks. PA becomes -3/+6
And, for the "qualifying for feats" bit later, it means "qualifying to get feats" - it doesn't make much sense otherwise.
But that's me, and I know that a couple posters have opposite views on this (already much) discussed topic. Is there going to be an update on the rules errata? Is that errata going to be included in the online PRD? Who knows...
no no. what i actually meant was this. say at first level, monk uses flurry of blows. for one attack strikes two handed with staff. for the other, kicks enemy in face. this should be 1.5 str bonus with staff, and str bonus with kick.i'm going to take these one at at time here, so does anyone disagree with this?
I'm pretty sure it means that you get only the str dam times 1, not times 1.5.
A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage
rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows,
whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a
weapon wielded in both hands.
Nothing is ever considered off hand, so no damage penalty, but nothing is considered two handed either, so no damage bonus. You end up even at lower levels and ahead at higher ones, as you get more attacks.
In 3.5 (as per the FAQ), you could actually attack with the same monk weapon, even a one handed one, for every attack in an FoB. The wording in PF is a little different, tho, so this may no longer be the case.