Do I have this right:
for the purposes of this example X always fails his escape check so I won't worry about talking about what he does.
Round 1: A grapples X
Round 2: A Pins X (with the +5 circumstance bonus)
Round 3: A uses his move action to draw his manacles/rope, and tries to tie up X suffering a -9 penalty (A gets his +5 circumstance bonus but takes a -10 penalty for grappling his opponent and another -4 for not having his hands free).
A follow up question, does A have to pin X at all? What does it add to the situation beyond a possible failed check and another chance for B to escape?
Also, if A has X pinned, can B tie X up without entering the grapple? RAW no but I don't see any way of getting away from that -10 penalty since to tie someone up (who is actively fighting against it) you need to be in a grapple with them and you can't pin them and tie them at the same time (except with the greater grapple feat)and multiple grapplers can't perform different actions because all the extra bodies have to aid the first.
Pinned: A pinned creature is tightly bound and can take few actions. A pinned creature cannot move and is flat-footed. A pinned character also takes an additional –4 penalty to his Armor Class. A pinned creature is limited in the actions that it can take. A pinned creature can always attempt to free itself, usually through a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check. A pinned creature can take verbal and mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component. A pinned character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level) or lose the spell. Pinned is a more severe version of grappled, and their effects do not stack.
So I see it as two different situations, one for each condition:
1)B is pinned by A. A just makes a check(maintain grapple/pin) at no penalty to bind B.
Tie Up: If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin...
2)B is grappled by A but not pinned.
...If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty...
Now the penalty kicks in because B still can take actions that require one hand to perform... which is not the case when it's pinned.
...If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target's CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check.
Thank you nidho.
I think part of my problem was that I thought that pinning someone only lasted one round and you had to pin him again each round thereafter. It seems though that once you have him pinned you just need to maintain your grapple to keep him pinned. With that said you can have him pinned and tie him up at the same time.
Excellent...
Thank you nidho.
I think part of my problem was that I thought that pinning someone only lasted one round and you had to pin him again each round thereafter. It seems though that once you have him pinned you just need to maintain your grapple to keep him pinned. With that said you can have him pinned and tie him up at the same time.
Excellent...
You're welcome. Glad to help you. :D