A bit of an unusual situation came up when a charging attacker happened to move the exact maximum that his charge allowed. I made my judgment call but would love to hear thoughts on what other GM's would have ruled.
Smarty and Meatbag are both medium sized creatures with normal movement rates. Smarty has a reach weapon and the higher initiative. Meatbag has a 5' range in melee. They start at the maximum distance for Meatbag's charge distance. Nothing else impinges on this part of the combat.
Rather than ready a Brace Against Charge action, Smarty decides to simply delay. He sets his new initiative at the time of Meatbag's charge. When Meatbag charges, Smarty declares a five foot step backwards and claims the following should happen:
Smarty's Interpretation
Meatbag moves into a square which Smarty threatens in his charge, thanks his reach weapon. Smarty takes his AoO as normal, then declares that his action is to take a full attack after taking a five foot step backwards. This happens simultaneously with Meatbag's charge attack, since Smarty and Meatbag have the same initiative. Smarty also takes his step back AFTER his attack of opportunity but before his attacks. This would move him out of the range of Meatbag's weapon, and since Meatbag charged, Meatbag cannot take a 5' step to close with Smarty and finish his attack. (Remember, Meatbag charged his maximum possible distance.)
Meatbag's Interpretation
Meatbag, naturally, argued that the charge would take place as normal, then Smarty could take his 5' step backward and attack.
My Interpretation
Smarty cannot interrupt an action that Meatbag initiates. The two roll-off an opposed Initiative check to determine which of the two has priority. Both have declared their action so both are committed to it. Smarty won the roll-off, so he foils Meatbag's charge when takes his 5' step out of reach. He then takes his turn normally (unloading a full attack on Meatbag). However, Smarty does not get his AoO since he took a step back and did not threaten a square which Meatbag charged through. Had Meatbag won the roll-off, Meatbag would have taken an AoO from Smarty, charged and delivered his attack, and then likely eaten a full attack by Smarty on Smarty's turn.
Not that it mattered; Meatbag was essentially making a Death or Glory attack and got the former.
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I'd say you were almost right, but the confusion stems from how you resolved Smarty's Delay Action. Smarty's entire initiative changes to whatever he wants, but he can't change it *during* Meatbag's action. Thus the charge would have resolved fully before Smarty even had the chance to do anything (AoO notwithstanding).
Side Note: Is it just me or didn't there used to be a rule about not provoking an attack of opportunity for movement with a charge, but only with respect to the target of your charge?
I'd say you were almost right, but the confusion stems from how you resolved Smarty's Delay Action. Smarty's entire initiative changes to whatever he wants, but he can't change it *during* Meatbag's action. Thus the charge would have resolved fully before Smarty even had the chance to do anything (AoO notwithstanding).
Side Note: Is it just me or didn't there used to be a rule about not provoking an attack of opportunity for movement with a charge, but only with respect to the target of your charge?
I based my decision on this bit:
"Delay
"You never get back the time you spend waiting to see what's going to happen. You also can't interrupt anyone else's action (as you can with a readied action).
Smarty never prevented the charge; he simply stepped out of reach of it. He won the roll-off to act first on the same initiative. No longer being threatened by Meatbag, Smarty faces no attack at the end of the charge. This would be like a boxer with longer reach stepping just outside of a jab and then counterpunching. I ruled that the characters could not take back their actions; I've always held that once a player says he does X, his character commits, even if the rest of the party is groaning at his decision.
I don't see that rule under either charge or AoO; if you know where there is such a rule, I'd appreciate the correction and knowing where it is.
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Smarty never prevented the charge; he simply stepped out of reach of it. He won the roll-off to act first on the same initiative. No longer being threatened by Meatbag, Smarty faces no attack at the end of the charge.
If that's the case then Smarty goes first, before Meatbag even has the chance to go - thus Meatbag couldn't have charged (because his desired target was too far away).
(I'm not trying to be difficult, just espousing my interpretation of the rules. Insert IMHOs and YMMVs where appropriate.)
I don't see that rule under either charge or AoO; if you know where there is such a rule, I'd appreciate the correction and knowing where it is.
I couldn't find it either, guess I imagined it. (The more I think about it, the more I think it was a house rule from some other DM that was adopted to one group I play in. Gettin' old sucks.)
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I based my decision on this bit:
"Delay
"You never get back the time you spend waiting to see what's going to happen. You also can't interrupt anyone else's action (as you can with a readied action).
Smarty never prevented the charge; he simply stepped out of reach of it.
I don't see that rule under either charge or AoO; if you know where there is such a rule, I'd appreciate the correction and knowing where it is.
The part you quoted is the rule you're looking for: "You also can't interrupt anyone else's action"
As the charge is one action that involves both the movement and attack, a dleayed action cannot happen in the middle of it. A readied action, on the other hand, "Ready and action, To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character.Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don't otherwise move any distance during the round. " Smarty would have had to have readied the free action of "5' step back and melee attack upon and attack upon me" this would have interrupted the charge, and as meatbag can no longer attack, their action would be over.
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Cpt_kirstov is correct.
When you 'delay', you change your initiative to whatever you want, but in any event you can never 'share' someone's initiative entirely in that case. You still must choose to go right before or right after them. You will get your whole turn, but no part of it may interrupt the other player's turn.
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
asknethys@karuikage.net
Rather than ready a Brace Against Charge action, Smarty decides to simply delay.
This is a mistake. He could have hit with a braced attack and took a free 5 ft. step back as part of his readied action. At that point, he would have been out of charge range and Meatbag would look kinda dumb.
The delay rules are more complicated and, based on what you're saying, wouldn't work in Smarty's favor.
Kirstov and Nethys have it.
What Smarty should've done is readied an action to attack Meatbag as soon as Meatbag came in range. After his readied attack, Smarty could five-foot-step back, and Meatbag could proceed with his action (which would've fallen short by five feet).
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Meatbag moves into a square which Smarty threatens in his charge, thanks his reach weapon. Smarty takes his AoO as normal,
Technically, this is a fallacy. It is only by LEAVING a square that someone threatens does the opponent provoke an AoO.
Meatbag is right, he gets his attack before Smarty can pull his cheeze.