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These are some weird random ideas/question that I've been wondering for my game. Im probably going to add em regardless but I thought the general public get a kick out of em plus wanted to know if they already were in a book somewhere
Are there Ice boxes? Not refrigerators iceboxes you know like in the early twentieth centuryway. I figure a wizard could make some extra cash traveling around townships creating ice in cabinets and also help food safety.
Are there glass jars?this I just want to know
Because if so it leads to the idea of trail houses. A small rest stop off the side roads that are light enough travelled that inns would be too far away. I figure they would be sort of stocked with extra canned vegetables from area farmers for travelers that sort of thing
These are some weird random ideas/question that I've been wondering for my game. Im probably going to add em regardless but I thought the general public get a kick out of em plus wanted to know if they already were in a book somewhere
Are there Ice boxes? Not refrigerators iceboxes you know like in the early twentieth centuryway. I figure a wizard could make some extra cash traveling around townships creating ice in cabinets and also help food safety.
Are there glass jars?this I just want to know
Because if so it leads to the idea of trail houses. A small rest stop off the side roads that are light enough travelled that inns would be too far away. I figure they would be sort of stocked with extra canned vegetables from area farmers for travelers that sort of thing
There is some pretty exquisite stained glass in Varisia's small town of Sandpoint (which also supplies the city of Magnimar and other locales through its port), so glass jars is quite likely, at least some locations. The poor still probably use clay and wood instead of glasswear.
I could totally see mages using ray of frost to make ice, but most likely the majority have better things to do, like summoning demons or scouring libraries. However, a mage down on his luck might use his cantrips with an entrepreneurial spirit.
That said every town has a chance for having a magic item or two, so some magical conveniences are likely here and there. They are likely to be "public works" since it differs the cost amongst the whole populace. So maybe there is an "ice machine" created by a local mage-crafter, and the whole town uses it like a public water pump.
Using magic as a substitute for technology has its catches - if you develop that idea further, suddenly you get magic that looks and acts like technology all over the place, having phones, cars, guns and everything else. I would be very careful before introducing magetech to the world - the background is written in a way that suggests that this just does not happen.
Regarding ice boxes - well, people have harvested natural ice for that very purpose for a long time in history, even to the point of digging shallow ice ponds to harvest the ice in winter and storing it in a way (below ground, padded with hay) so as to maximise the use of it until the next winter. If you want to use some storage, I would definitly place it below ground, with a hut on top of it as a trail house. IMO, magic should be too rare to use it much for mundane purposes, even if the PCs run around like magic christmas trees.
Stefan
Brown mold = ice box. You just have to be very careful about getting your groceries out of the freezer.
Glass jars would not be a problem, after all, what do you think all those potion bottles and vials are made from? The more important question would be whether someone has invented the slotted lid yet or is everything still sealed with corks or other kinds of stoppers.
As for the icebox or other closer to modern inventions, standard fantasy worlds generally range from late medieval to high renaissance Earth for what may be available. So generally, if something was invented in the real world after the 1600's then it is highly unlikely to ever appear in a fantasy setting.
Glass jars would not be a problem, after all, what do you think all those potion bottles and vials are made from? The more important question would be whether someone has invented the slotted lid yet or is everything still sealed with corks or other kinds of stoppers.
As for the icebox or other closer to modern inventions, standard fantasy worlds generally range from late medieval to high renaissance Earth for what may be available. So generally, if something was invented in the real world after the 1600's then it is highly unlikely to ever appear in a fantasy setting.
This is true... but we are finding over time an amazing amount of stuff that the ancient greeks and romans created that is nearly modern day in its construction.
I watched this special on an ancient Greek(?) "computer/calculator" that was designed to answer questions about seasons, when to plant crops, etc... (an ancient clockwork device)
Also, in the case of Golarion, your imagination is the limit, because they have crashed spaceships, leftover super-science from past civilizations, etc. And in Alkenstar there is no magic so they have made advances in clockworks, mundane craftsmanship, and alchemy in place of magic.
Glass jars would not be a problem, after all, what do you think all those potion bottles and vials are made from? The more important question would be whether someone has invented the slotted lid yet or is everything still sealed with corks or other kinds of stoppers.
As for the icebox or other closer to modern inventions, standard fantasy worlds generally range from late medieval to high renaissance Earth for what may be available. So generally, if something was invented in the real world after the 1600's then it is highly unlikely to ever appear in a fantasy setting.
This is true... but we are finding over time an amazing amount of stuff that the ancient greeks and romans created that is nearly modern day in its construction.
I watched this special on an ancient Greek(?) "computer/calculator" that was designed to answer questions about seasons, when to plant crops, etc... (an ancient clockwork device)
Also, in the case of Golarion, your imagination is the limit, because they have crashed spaceships, leftover super-science from past civilizations, etc. And in Alkenstar there is no magic so they have made advances in clockworks, mundane craftsmanship, and alchemy in place of magic.
This came up in one of our games where a Wizard wanted to use Ray of Frost to freeze some fish the Ranger caught.
I figured if 1d3 fire is enough to cook with, 1d3 frost (two shots of which is enough to kill and average human) should be enough. Then I made them pass a spellcraft check DC 20 + Spell Level to use the spell in an unusual way. They succeeded (now the DC drops to 15+ Spell level) and they have a way to transport some game they cuaght. (and keep their beer cold...)
I told them I'd allow it as long as they don't try to make a major merchantile effort out of it. Its more of a storytelling effect than a mechanic, and they are having fun with it without abusing the ability. Now they are looking for more fun with magic, whcih is cool....
Are there Ice boxes? Not refrigerators iceboxes you know like in the early twentieth centuryway. I figure a wizard could make some extra cash traveling around townships creating ice in cabinets and also help food safety.
One of the greatest temptations that I think we should all strive to avoid in our games is the knee-jerk tendency to make the amazing mundane. Logically, if there is magic and individuals who can use magic to explode dragons and topple castles, then at the opposite extreme there must be spells to repair shingles and repaint fences, yes? Perhaps. Does that mean that the core rules of the game should spend time and space address such things like magical flower pressing and arcane picture straightening beyond the effects of the prestidigitation spell? Certainly not.
Although the reasonable answer to your question is: Yes, if there are necklaces of fireballs and vorpal swords there likely are boxes of glacial frost. But will they improve your game or make wizards feel more like workers of wonders blessed with mastery over powers beyond reckoning? Nope. Remember, although the ranks of Pathfinder villains and PCs are thick with fighters and paladins and sorcerers, these are meant to be the most exceptional of exceptional individuals. 99.99% of the NPCs that are never mentioned in your game are farmers, selfs, shopkeepers, and pigkeepers, commoners and experts at best, toiling their weeks away for a few stray silvers any adventurer would take for granted. If if magical ice boxes exist, who would make them? The exceptional wizards? They likely have better things to do. The retired exceptional wizards then? Perhaps, but even then, such an item would be priced in the thousands of gold pieces, more money than most fantasy folk will ever see in their short lives. Perhaps then eclectic royals and nobles might purchase such things. Perhaps - we have seen a house headed by a pit fiend after all.
Just food for thought. And overall, even if such is not you intent - as I'm sure it isn't - don't go out of your way to make your spell casting PCs feel less exceptional (or any of your PCs for that matter).
Are there glass jars?this I just want to know
Absolutely. Pathfinder #1 features a glassworks after all.
Because if so it leads to the idea of trail houses. A small rest stop off the side roads that are light enough travelled that inns would be too far away. I figure they would be sort of stocked with extra canned vegetables from area farmers for travelers that sort of thing
In certain regions, sure. It makes sense that along many major roads there would be inns and waystops, trading posts and regularly camped grounds. Might "trail houses" be a common sight in certain regions, of course.
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Because if so it leads to the idea of trail houses. A small rest stop off the side roads that are light enough travelled that inns would be too far away. I figure they would be sort of stocked with extra canned vegetables from area farmers for travelers that sort of thing
Iron rations, if they sell vegetables probably they produce it themselves or they bring from close farms, but most of it might not be fresh
These are some weird random ideas/question that I've been wondering for my game. Im probably going to add em regardless but I thought the general public get a kick out of em plus wanted to know if they already were in a book somewhere
I am sure the ingeeniers from Alkenstar might have soemthing like this using the snow from close moutains... but surely it wouldn't be for traveling and there will be very few non magical, maybe the inn where powerful dignataries stop... or maybe we know why the yeties attack the haunted fortress... human stole thesecre of icecream :D
Hehe..
Wondrous Item:
Cursed Bag of Frozen Holdings
It's a bag of holding that freezes any item put into it. :)
That's just because Black Mage cast Ice-9 into it. Or was it Red Mage?
Well one of them did anyway.
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There was an article in Dragon Magazine#280 years back that had some nifty alchemical gadgets in an article called “Better living through Alchemy”. Among them was an Item called an Ice Crystal (DC 15 alchemy) which was a piece of treated rock crystal which “when immersed in water becomes as cold as ice and remains that way until it is removed” Its 3.5 rules set but I don’t see why it wouldn’t fit.
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To summarize the post that just got eaten:
Once everyone's special... no one is.
I've been in technomagical games that were technomagical for its own sake. That was FUN.
But introducing technomagical elements to a game that doesn't have that as a focus detracts from the overall setting in my opinion.
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I think of it like this; areas like Nex, a long standing society with higher institutions of magical learning have some serious mage tech available. But the farther away from these areas the less available it becomes.
[Here is an example of this gradient in our current time: in first world countries not having a T.V., Phone, Frig, or oven is considered very unusual. But in third world countries some households still do not yet have electricity or running water and daily life resembles the 1600s more closely than 2009.]
But, this magical technology requires maintenance and upkeep and that means lots of disposable income. Either that or the average npc would have to mortgage his grandchild's grandchildren to pay for the permanency spells to keep the magical toilet, frig, oven, and other luxuries running.
And magical public works projects that adds to the quality of life for all, adds to the tax burden of the general population. Just like public water, city bus systems, and electric grids do in the real world. So poor or unorganized lands would not have these at all.
So using Nex again, the citizens of Quantium may have a more cushy life running water everywhere and/or public transit, they still have to work to pay (and pay dearly) for the privilege of living amongst such luxury. But in areas like almost all of Varisia a npc still has to haul water and use an outhouse but they do not have as much worry about being evicted because sales at the smithy were low this month.
Its your world but historically the common person that lives outside of town would probably have very little glass items as it required more skill in production. the daily goods would be ceramic and wood items that can be easily crafted, and maybe some metal items. Glassware, fine ceramics, metal daily goods would be luxuries and only used on special occasions. Which is the reason they given as gifts. Glass window panes will even be considered a luxury by the poorer folks. In town where the standard of living is higher, and people can invest more time to fine crafts. Glass will be used a little more liberally.
But jars at road side stand, or used as a storage device by the commoners would be rare. This type of storage device would be a ceramic jar that would be sealed with bitumen (tar/resin) or wax.
Perishable food is not kept in the large quantities as today so ice boxes would not be needed by most commoners. Those that live outside of town would have root cellars, that would keep stored goods at 50 degrees fahrenheit or lower. Meats would be smoked or cooked at slaughter. Food is also not wasted like it is today. leftovers became stew, or were processed into an ingredient for the next days meal. The people would eat what was in season example fruits in the spring, Fish in the summer, Grains in the fall, and fattened up livestock and grain in the winter. This would be mixed with what ever could be hunted or gathered. Any waste or spoiled goods would also be used to feed the livestock ex pig slop.
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Its your world but historically the common person that lives outside of town would probably have very little glass items as it required more skill in production. the daily goods would be ceramic and wood items that can be easily crafted, and maybe some metal items. Glassware, fine ceramics, metal daily goods would be luxuries and only used on special occasions. Which is the reason they given as gifts. Glass window panes will even be considered a luxury by the poorer folks. In town where the standard of living is higher, and people can invest more time to fine crafts. Glass will be used a little more liberally.
But jars at road side stand, or used as a storage device by the commoners would be rare. This type of storage device would be a ceramic jar that would be sealed with bitumen (tar/resin) or wax.
Perishable food is not kept in the large quantities as today so ice boxes would not be needed by most commoners. Those that live outside of town would have root cellars, that would keep stored goods at 50 degrees fahrenheit or lower. Meats would be smoked or cooked at slaughter. Food is also not wasted like it is today. leftovers became stew, or were processed into an ingredient for the next days meal. The people would eat what was in season example fruits in the spring, Fish in the summer, Grains in the fall, and fattened up livestock and grain in the winter. This would be mixed with what ever could be hunted or gathered. Any waste or spoiled goods would also be used to feed the livestock ex pig slop.
*applauds* Precisely!