I've been trying to build a campaign with much lower levels of magic, and a grittier feel to it.
My plans are to use the Mage and Acolyte Advanced Classes from D20 modern instead of sorcerer, wizard, druid, or cleric. I'm also going to cut, Bard and Paladin, and use a spell-less ranger variant.
My main question is how to do damage, I know some people on here use static racial hit die,but I cant find those threads. I want my players to fear a guy with a crossbow, no matter their level.
Any tips or links to other threads that may have covered this?
I want my players to fear a guy with a crossbow, no matter their level.
In all honesty, I think I would recommend a system other than D&D/OGL for this kind of feel.
However, if you really like the system otherwise you might want to look at something like the injury system optional rule from Unearthed Arcana. I believe it is also on the SRD site.
You might also want to look at some of Monte Cook's alternate stuff which is supposed to allow for non/low-magic worlds (Arcana Unearthed? Iron Heroes? Something like that).
Sean Mahoney
I can only echo seans earlier statement. The way you plan on reducing magic to near nonexistent levels doesn't seem like D&D in any edition.
You might want to look at iron heroes or heck try shadowrun instead. You can easily remove magic from that sysytem and still have a great game.
As far as the guy with the crossbow at ANY level, that seems strange I mean once you get past a certain level and have near triple digit HP a single crossbow shot, even a crit, is going to be nothing to you. Thats why it's fantasy. Thing of how many pictures of Conan(as an example) show him half naked bloody,wounded with broken arrows in his thigh's or shoulder and he still fights.
I wish you the best with your home brew.
Iron Heroes. Summary here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Heroes
Fiery Dragon is the publisher.
http://fierydragon.com/dragonsbreath/
It's fun stuff. I've enjoyed it. I note that it's not really "low magic". For that you need GURPS or Savage Worlds or something.
I've been trying to build a campaign with much lower levels of magic, and a grittier feel to it.
My plans are to use the Mage and Acolyte Advanced Classes from D20 modern instead of sorcerer, wizard, druid, or cleric. I'm also going to cut, Bard and Paladin, and use a spell-less ranger variant.
My main question is how to do damage, I know some people on here use static racial hit die,but I cant find those threads. I want my players to fear a guy with a crossbow, no matter their level.
Any tips or links to other threads that may have covered this?
The original Star Wars RPG from WotC had a "Vitality" that was separate from hit points. The score was your Con, and never changed unless your Con did. It represented your REAL hit points, since everything else was basically stun damage. It's been a while since I read it, and I never played it, but as I recall, a critical hit did damage to your vitality instead of your hp. So while characters could take a lot of punishment at higher levels, nearly every attack was potentially fatal.
Actually, what you're describing sounds like a RuneQuest game I was in a while ago. Look into that system. I don't think PF can really accommodate the setting as you describe it.
Thanks for the responses, though no one actually responded to what I asked for. . . anyway.
My point was/is that I KNOW other people on paizo have run campaigns along these lines, I just can't remember the threads they were on.
And Steven, everything thing I've read and seen (in the box set I have) shows the 1st edition was very low-magic, at least on the player's side.
Thanks for the responses, though no one actually responded to what I asked for. . . anyway.
My point was/is that I KNOW other people on paizo have run campaigns along these lines, I just can't remember the threads they were on.
And Steven, everything thing I've read and seen (in the box set I have) shows the 1st edition was very low-magic, at least on the player's side.
If your question was "How do my players always fear a crossbow?" then, no we didn't answer it. However, we did given an answer. Just not one that was as helpful as you were hoping for.
What you're really describing, if you want to stick with a d20 variant system, is a good critical hit system. That cuts both ways. If the PCs can crit monsters, then the monsters can crit PCs. Torn Asunder, from Bastion Press, got good reviews (although I never had a copy). The revised Arms Law system came out a couple years back. It didn't have the humor of the original Arms Law/Claw Law that used to strike fear into the hearts of my players, and it could have been better organized, but it worked.
Oh, as to first edition? Yeah, it was lower in terms of total party magic items because magic wasn't built into the characters' expected progression. However, artifacts might show up in a game as low as first level. And you got to use them!
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I want my players to fear a guy with a crossbow, no matter their level.
Firstly I agree d20 isn't the game of choice if you want his feel. I would suggest Stormbringer - fits exactly what you are describing.
However in d20 you could only allow 1st level hp's at maximum. It'll also make what magic there is in your world scary as hell. Or perhaps the wounds/vitality idea from Star Wars d20? Then crits will be feared.
S.
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If you want your players to fear a crossbow always (or any weapon for that matter), run with exploding damage; if max damage is rolled on a die, you get to roll that die again and add it to the result. If max damage is rolled on the second roll, continue until you don't roll the max.
In order to maintain some semblance of balance (after all a weapon that does 1d2 points has a better chance of doing additional damage than a weapon that does 1d12), you can place a cap as to the additional re-rolls to the die type (ie - a 1d2 can do 2 additional rolls for a max of 6 points and the d12 weapon could have up to 12 additional rolls for a max of 156 points) ... this would place a crossbow into a potentially very deadly category, along with any sword, staff, etc.
Of course, this is not a true d20 system, but it may serve your purpose. If you run with it let me know how it goes.
An effective crit rule set would also be a great improvement (as well as a crit fumble system). Nothing says terror than knowing there is the instant death possibility from a critical hit.
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Instead of the older Star Wars RPG, you might use the Condition Track from the current Star Wars RPG Saga Edition, well, a slightly modified version, anyway.
Here's the information, if you have the Saga Edition, it won't hurt to skip the parts you already know.
First, hitpoints end at 0. There's nothing below that. Hitpoints per level are calculated as normal. For the first level, I'd suggest going with one full hitdie plus a number of racial hitpoints(I'll put a list of what I use below). That'll give some comfort room, but not a lot.
The Damage Threshold is similar to Massive Damage from D&D/d20 Modern. Damage in excess of the Threshold that doesn't outright kill the character drops that character one step on the Condition Track. The Threshold equals Fortitude plus Size Modifier(which is +5 for Large, +10 for Huge, +20 for Gargantuan, and +50 for Colossal in this case).
Critical Hits(when confirmed) will drop the player one step on the condition track(two if its Critical and past the Threshold).
Exhaustion and Fatigue will lower a character's state on the condition track. Similarly spells which inflict states(Stunned, Dazed, et cetera) lower the condition. Finally, any failed Fortitude or Will save will as well
Spells that relieve states, resting for a time, or medical treatment can improve a character's condition.
The Condition Track itself has 6 steps.
- Normal - No Penalties
- -1 Penalty to all defenses(Saving Throws and AC), attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks
- -2 Penalty to all defenses, attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks
- -5 Penalty to all defenses, attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks
- -10 Penalty to all defenses, attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks
- Helpless (unconscious or disabled)
Then a final modification since your players will no longer have -10 hitpoints. When in a dying state, give the players 1 + CON mod rounds before they die(unless a deathblow is given, or something explodes near them). This makes them fear things such as crossbows, because they can potentially be dropped without being killed(Damage Threshold).
Hope this has been helpful.
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Remember, hitpoints aren't so much a measure of how tough someone is, as much as it is a representation of how good they are at avoiding a lethal blow. The warrior, who at level one, would die at the sword point of a single Orc, can now, at level 10, face 5 orcs with ease and only walk away with a few scratches. If you still want a sense of lethality, i suggest using the critical bit/ critical miss decks sold by Paizo.