The rules about monsters as playable characters were so complex in D&D that they had to make an entire book just to fully explain them. Now in Pathfinder, those rules are extremely easy to understand, ( rules here!) but they seem so simple that I can't believe they cover everything.
Question #1 : It is written that some monsters may possess special abilities that make them stronger than their Hit Dice shows. However, the book doesn't even explain how to recognize these monsters! How are we supposed to make adjustments for those monsters if we don't even know when we're supposed to?
Question #2 : The rules say that, for example, a monster like a minotaur could become a PC. However, I can't find a way to calculate that PC's stats. If you want to create a minotaur PC, for example, how can you find his racial bonuses, racial feats and everything that makes his race different from others? The basic monster races (goblin, hobgobling, orc and others) all have their stats written at the end of their description, but how can you find them when they're not written? Try using the example of the minotaur to explain, it's pretty simple.
I'm running a game and my player wants to play a vampire. She's level 5 and a vampire has a CR of +2, so basically she's a CR 7 (level 7) equivalent character. Still, with all the special powers, resistances and everything she gets, I'd need to know the answer to question #1 before I know if an equivalent level of 7 is enough. It seems pretty low : a level 7 character could hardly be equal to a level 5 vampire rogue, since the vampire is resistant to almost everything, regenerates, dominates, transforms and even if her HP drops to 0, she gets to transform in a gaseous form automatically and goes back to heal in her coffin. I know she has to deal with all the weaknesses to light, water, garlic and such, but it seems pretty unbalanced to me, which is why I'd like you guys to answer question #1. Thanks a lot!
1: So far, Paizo has basically said that this is all up to the DM. If you think a race/template has special powers that makes it more powerful than a PC would be at the same level, bump up the level-equivalency or simply don't allow that race/template as a PC. There are no hard-and-fast rules (yet) for determining this.
And, as Savage Species showed, it's pretty difficult to make rules that actually work well, since some abilities are next-to-useless at high levels while being game-breaking at low levels.
2: You find a monster's stat point adjustments by subtracting 11 from the odd scores and 10 from the even scores. The Minotaur thus gets the following stat point adjustments: STR +8, CON +4, INT -4, CHA -2.
Bonus feats are any feats the monster has beyond what it would normally have based on its number of HD. The Minotaur has 6 HD and 3 feats, so it has the correct number. If it instead had 4 feats, one of the feats would have been a racial bonus feat.
Class skills for the racial HD are any skills the monster has ranks in.
Otherwise, everything should be easy to determine from the statblock (such as the Minotaur's +5 natural armor, -1 AC penalty for size, 10 ft space and reach, gore attack, Natural Cunning, and Powerful Charge).
A very large problem in the Old system, that I'm not entirely sure has been addressed, is the issue of "monster X is passable as a (class A), crappy at a (class b) but if you make it into (class C) then its ungodly powerful.
Some of the fae were like that. Excellent stats for say- a sorceror. Very imbalanced.
But few folks will argue that pixie barbarians were greatly game breaking.
The Minotaur is another example of this, in my opinion. While a minotaur wizard shouldn't really be worth all that much of a LA, that same minotaur as a barbarian, paladin, or fighter becomes a whole other creature altogether.
That is the real problem with monsters-as-PC's, at least in my opinion.
How to solve it? Talk to your Dm about your preferred race and what you want to do with it and help him help you make an informed decision about how to create the appropriate stats for it.
-S
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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they seem so simple
Question #1 : How are we supposed to make adjustments for those monsters if we don't even know when we're supposed to?
Question #2 : I can't find a way to calculate that PC's stats ... racial feats
They are too simple for powerful classes.
They intended to make the system simple because so many people disliked the simple LA system. They made a good system for any monster with low stat modifiers and little or no abilities. The system breaks down for all other monsters.
1) According to Paizo, you shouldn't allow non PC races into a game. If you do, these rules handle it. You are recommended to make all PC's the same race since some are massively more powerful than others and all are more powerful than base races.
2) -10 or -11 depending on odd/even like in 3.5 rules. Racial feats have (B) listed, but with the new system I don't allow PC Monster races to change their Feat selections or Skill points that come from Monster HD. So basically take the Monster as is with no changes, then add Class levels.