The rules say: No jump can allow you to exceed your maximum move,ent for the round.
So does that mean you cant move beyond your base movement rate? Or is a larger number, like running you get 4x your base?
If you do make a jump that carries you beyond your base, would that then count as a double move action?
In my group, the party is about to hit 5th level. If my math is correct (always in doubt), the monk, with the expenditure of a Ki point should be able to clear almost his whole 40ft move before he rolls the dice. A good roll will put him well beyond that. Knowing the player as well as I do, he will want to do the fancy kungfu movie flying leap kick stuff for the cool thematics of it, so I figure I should have my duck in a row before hand.
My first thought is if he tries an attack like that that takes him beyond his base move and manages to get the roll, treat it like a charge. If he is just covering distance (say jumping a gorge)it would count towards a double move and he could finish his move when he landed. Is this the correct reading and application of the rules?
My first thought is if he tries an attack like that that takes him beyond his base move and manages to get the roll, treat it like a charge. If he is just covering distance (say jumping a gorge)it would count towards a double move and he could finish his move when he landed. Is this the correct reading and application of the rules?
I think so. To summarize:
- jump during one move action = 1x speed, then he can take a simple action (attack)- jump during two move actions = 2x speed, then nothing
- jump during a full-round charge = 2x speed, then charge attack
- jump during a partial charge = 1x speed, then charge attack
I also think that the jumps during a charge must belong to a Charge action declared beforehand. That means -2 to AC even if he fails his jump (on top of everything bad occurring from failing his check).
There's also the jumping while taking the run action. A level 5 human monk can move 160 ft. in a run action, but if you use a ki point for jumping (+20), have 16 Dex, and 5 ranks in acrobatics, the max you could horizontal jump is 60 ft. (5 ranks + 5 monk + 4 speed + 3 proficiency + 3 Dex + 20 ki + 20 roll) or vertical jump 15 ft. So there's no point in running. . . 2 move actions would be fine.
I guess he could jump for 60 ft. and run an additional 100 ft. if he really wanted. . .
I'd like to point out that the rule also implies finishing the distance allowed by your check as a move action(or double for a really high check) the next round.
I'd like to point out that the rule also implies finishing the distance allowed by your check as a move action(or double for a really high check) the next round.
I didn't know that. Where is it implied? If we didn't know that combat rounds were in fact occurring at the same time (the Initiative checks occurring just so that the game wouldn't descend into total chaos), it would be real weird.
"During my 6-second round, I do a Spring Attack, and jump at the end of my move. Then, I stay 15 feet in the air while the bad guys try to get at me with their puny swords. Then I land and proceed to punch them again." Mmmm... yeah, weird.
Thinking about it as I write this, the situation could reflect what happens in kung-fu movies, like the hero jumping over enemies rushing at him - and hitting them in the back of the head (rinse and repeat). Interesting in its own right.
However, quick-thinking smart foes could prepare the squares I'll land on, with fire/tanglefoot/Grease/whatever - the chaotic evil rogue "ally" could as well, just to get a laugh ;-)
I didn't know that. Where is it implied? If we didn't know that combat rounds were in fact occurring at the same time (the Initiative checks occurring just so that the game wouldn't descend into total chaos), it would be real weird.
"During my 6-second round, I do a Spring Attack, and jump at the end of my move. Then, I stay 15 feet in the air while the bad guys try to get at me with their puny swords. Then I land and proceed to punch them again." Mmmm... yeah, weird.
If you can make a 15' jump (a DC 60 check), why not? It's not any worse than making a Spring Attack using flight.
"During my 6-second round, I do a Spring Attack, and jump at the end of my move. Then, I stay 15 feet in the air while the bad guys try to get at me with their puny swords. Then I land and proceed to punch them again." Mmmm... yeah, weird.If you can make a 15' jump (a DC 60 check), why not? It's not any worse than making a Spring Attack using flight.
...except that the other melee foes won't be able to charge you :-)
I know, I know, they could use ranged attacks, spells, try to jump, whatever. It's just that monks could abuse this and spend all their time between turns in the air.
Re: can anyone point me to the PRD/book page for this?
...except that the other melee foes won't be able to charge you :-)
I'm not sure why you could charge an opponent flying 15' off the ground, but not an opponent jumping 15' off the ground.
Re: can anyone point me to the PRD/book page for this?
No, because apparently it was deleted in the transition from 3.5 to PFRPG. Here's what 3.5 said about jumping:
"ActionNone. A Jump check is included in your movement, so it is part of a move action. If you run out of movement mid-jump, your next action (either on this turn or, if necessary, on your next turn) must be a move action to complete the jump. "
Sadly, PFRPG deleted a whole bunch of useful Jump information (e.g. the "hop up" option, the need for vertical clearance when making a long jump, etc.), presumably because of space considerations.
...except that the other melee foes won't be able to charge you :-)I'm not sure why you could charge an opponent flying 15' off the ground, but not an opponent jumping 15' off the ground.
You could charge an flying opponent at 15' off the ground? I don't think the regular meleer can, with his armor and all...
If you could, then yes.
But since, as you said, this possibility was removed when Jump was renamed Acrobatics, we cannot anymore (barring Erratas etc.)
...except that the other melee foes won't be able to charge you :-)I'm not sure why you could charge an opponent flying 15' off the ground, but not an opponent jumping 15' off the ground.You could charge an flying opponent at 15' off the ground? I don't think the regular meleer can, with his armor and all...
If you could, then yes.
But since, as you said, this possibility was removed when Jump was renamed Acrobatics, we cannot anymore (barring Erratas etc.)
O.K., now I'm throroughly confused. :-)
Here's what you said:
If you can make a 15' jump (a DC 60 check), why not? It's not any worse than making a Spring Attack using flight....except that the other melee foes won't be able to charge you :-)
Can you interpret your comment for me?
Can you interpret your comment for me?If you can make a 15' jump (a DC 60 check), why not? It's not any worse than making a Spring Attack using flight....except that the other melee foes won't be able to charge you :-)
It's me who didn't understand your comment: I didn't see "using flight". I then commented on the fact that, if you make a regular Spring Attack, you"re on the ground afterwards, and enemies can charge you. Of course, if you were using flight and made a Spring Attack (I think that it's Flyby Attack in this particular case), the enemies wouldn't be able to charge you either.
Mea culpa.
The thing is: a monk doing this kind of acrobatics would, in effect, be "in flight" between his turns. Perhaps that's why Paizo didn't include that particular rule. It's logical, too. In a round, you make a certain effort to act. At the end of your turn, you are tired from all this effort, and can't make a jump so high that it brings to to the next round.
Re-reading myself, I think it's stupid. If you make a high jump, you spend more effort than a long jump for the same overland distance. Well, so much for my well-thought reasoning... :-)
It's just that monks could abuse this and spend all their time between turns in the air.
mmm, maybe they could try to abuse it but as you pointed out:
However, quick-thinking smart foes could prepare the squares I'll land on, with fire/tanglefoot/Grease/whatever - the chaotic evil rogue "ally" could as well, just to get a laugh ;-)
they would be stuck finishing their moves in a rather predictably way in subsequent rounds.
Looks balanced to me.
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Here is my take:
The RAW says: You can't run or charge through any square that would hamper your movement.
There are three feats that allow you to break these rules and they are:
Nimble Moves: Whenever you move, you may move through 5 feet of difficult terrain each round as if it were normal terrain. This feat allows you to take a 5-foot step into difficult terrain.
Acrobatic Steps: Whenever you move, you may move through up to 15 feet of difficult terrain each round as if it were normal terrain. The effects of this feat stack with those provided by Nimble Moves (allowing you to move normally through a total of 20 feet of difficult terrain each round).
Light Step: You can ignore the effects of difficult terrain in natural environments, as if it were normal terrain.
My take is that these feats wouldn't exist if you could just bypass them with an Acrobatics check. Therefore charging over difficult terrain is a no from me.