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My apologies for perhaps being a bit vague. But my spell suggestion would be to choose spells known (as sorcerer)from specific schools. Evocation (damage), Abjuration (protection) and transmutation (buffs) up to lvl 6 (bard progression). And an advanced learning feature 4 or 5 times through it´s career that allowed it to choose spells from any school.
Personally I'm not sure where to start, is there a theme to the proposed class yet?
But, here is some good spells for a warrior/mage anyway.
Hold spells and other spells that limit movement.
(Hold person, hold monster, slow, Daze monster, Black tentacles etc.)
Reason: They keep things from running away, and given you more time to hit it with your sword.
Self buffs
(Bull's strength, cat's grace, shield, mirror image, etc.)
Reason: Self buffs are always good.
Touch based spells
(Shocking grasp, vampiric touch, chill touch, the inflict wounds spells, etc.)
Reason: If you have a good BAB you shouldn't waste it, these spells work better then fireballs and magic missiles as offensive spells.
De-buffs
(Bane, ray of enfeeblement, Blindness, Death knell, etc.)
Reason: I would rather see a focus on these types of spells above the buffs, they can be very effective, and give a great advantage to a sword swinger.
Anyway, take it as it is, until more info is released it's hard to settle on an actual spell list (it should go along with the theme of the class).
Personally I'm not sure where to start, is there a theme to the proposed class yet?
Anyway, take it as it is, until more info is released it's hard to settle on an actual spell list (it should go along with the theme of the class).
I am purposely not invoking a theme yet because it is entirely subjective. A lot of us wants something that is a fighter and a mage concurrently beginning at level one instead of working all the way to level 7 where we're finally qualified for Eldritch Knight.
Right now, I have an excel spreadsheet that has all of the sor/wiz spells from Pathfinder core listed as well as a couple more (i.e. cleric, bard spells) and I am tallying them up. I am listing each individual by name and the spells they've envisioned to be on the list of their archetype. What would be easiest is to go to the online PRD and look the spell lists and start listing them in a fashion similar to what I did earlier in thread. You already look like you're off to a good start with what you've mentioned thus far.
Once we get a good number of participants, we'll take a look at what were chosen in the majority and then go onto later steps such as class options and offer suggestions to choose from. At that stage, hopefully the theme of the character will slowly unveil itself.
Does this help?
My apologies for perhaps being a bit vague. But my spell suggestion would be to choose spells known (as sorcerer)from specific schools. Evocation (damage), Abjuration (protection) and transmutation (buffs) up to lvl 6 (bard progression). And an advanced learning feature 4 or 5 times through it´s career that allowed it to choose spells from any school.
Thanks for the clarification! I'll put you down as such and as I mentioned elsewhere, we'll bring up the advanced learning feature when we reach that stage.
I think there should be 6 spell levels through-out (like the bard).
However, I think there should also be a mid-level to high-level class feature that allows the character to add his crit multiplier to the spell save DC. So if you crit with a longsword while channeling a spell, you add +2 to the save DC. If you crit with a greataxe while channeling a spell, you add +3 to the save DC. If you hit with a ranged touch spell, you add +2 to the save DC. Rapiers, Scimitars, Falchions, and Scythes (and elven curve blades!) might be popular with a class with this class feature, which might help differentiate it from other melee-types.
That should help take care of the auto-save creep that seems to happen when fighting high level foes with excellent saves.
One interesting idea I've been playing around with is the ability to make one melee attack and cast one spell in the same round as opposed to a channeling type feature.
I'll suggest it again latter when class features comes up, but it would allow for a diverse feeling, and if the spells that can be cast are limited (say touch based only). It shouldn't be overpowered.
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This is by no means anything more than a rough draft. It's more like spells I would pick for myself if I ever played a melee mage(and I have tried without EK levels, or even any fighter/pally/barb/ranger levels)
Battle Mage Spell list
Spell per day: as Bard +2
Spells Known: as Bard +1 known
Lv0: Resistance, Light, Detect Magic, Daze, Flare, Mending, Acid Splash, Ray of Frost, Arcane Mark, Bleed, Touch of Fatigue, Disrupt Undead
Lv1: Shield, Mount, True Strike, Magic Weapon, Color Spray, Enlarge Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Cure Light Wounds
Lv2: Alter Self, Blur, Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, Heroism, Protection from Arrows, False Life
Lv3: Summon Monster III, Dispel Magic, Protection from Energy, Cure Moderate Wounds, Rage, Displacement, Haste
Lv4: Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Greater Invisibility, Fire Shield, Vampiric Touch
Lv5: Elemental Body I, Summon Monster V, Cure Serious Wounds, Mass Enlarge Person, Song of Discord
Lv6: Mislead, Form of the Dragon I, Elemental Body II, Transformation, Mass Cure Light Wounds
I think there should be 6 spell levels through-out (like the bard).
However, I think there should also be a mid-level to high-level class feature that allows the character to add his crit multiplier to the spell save DC. So if you crit with a longsword while channeling a spell, you add +2 to the save DC. If you crit with a greataxe while channeling a spell, you add +3 to the save DC. If you hit with a ranged touch spell, you add +2 to the save DC. Rapiers, Scimitars, Falchions, and Scythes (and elven curve blades!) might be popular with a class with this class feature, which might help differentiate it from other melee-types.
That should help take care of the auto-save creep that seems to happen when fighting high level foes with excellent saves.
That's definitely worth bringing up when we move to the phase when bringing up class options. I hope to see your involvement as I've always enjoyed (and even borrowed from) your builds.
One interesting idea I've been playing around with is the ability to make one melee attack and cast one spell in the same round as opposed to a channeling type feature.
I'll suggest it again latter when class features comes up, but it would allow for a diverse feeling, and if the spells that can be cast are limited (say touch based only). It shouldn't be overpowered.
There are some that want to channel their spells through their weapons, some may want to infuse their weapons, some may want to bond with their weapons, and some may want to do quick castings where you can do a swift action in addition to your melee action in the same round. We'll definitely get to those stages and I hope there's plenty of positive brainstorming when we get there.
This is by no means anything more than a rough draft. It's more like spells I would pick for myself if I ever played a melee mage...
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks for posting your spell list (that makes only 5 of us, so I hope to see more from others).
I'm curious about your ideas on Summon Monster spells. What's your appeal to them that you envision in your character's archetype?
With just five of us thus far, let me share the spells where we're all in agreement (thus far).
______________________________________________________________________
- Resistance
- Shield
Magic Weapon
- Protection from Arrows
Bear's Endurance
Cat's Grace
- Dispel Magic
Haste
- Fire Shield
The more input we receive, then we'll be able to discuss on majority selections as well.
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This is by no means anything more than a rough draft. It's more like spells I would pick for myself if I ever played a melee mage...
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks for posting your spell list (that makes only 5 of us, so I hope to see more from others).
I'm curious about your ideas on Summon Monster spells. What's your appeal to them that you envision in your character's archetype?
Just because you can fight doesn't mean you should do so alone.
Some creatures would be summoned for a little extra ranged support(Lantern Archons, I'm looking at you), and I believe some can buff.
This is by no means anything more than a rough draft. It's more like spells I would pick for myself if I ever played a melee mage...
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks for posting your spell list (that makes only 5 of us, so I hope to see more from others).
I'm curious about your ideas on Summon Monster spells. What's your appeal to them that you envision in your character's archetype?
Just because you can fight doesn't mean you should do so alone.
Some creatures would be summoned for a little extra ranged support(Lantern Archons, I'm looking at you), and I believe some can buff.
The problem i see with summon spells is it needs serious balance considerations. I dont want to it end up even close to the 3.5 druid where he was a beast in combat, had a badass pet and could cast effectively. Summon spells are great, but they open up a whole new can of balance worms.
My apologies for perhaps being a bit vague. But my spell suggestion would be to choose spells known (as sorcerer)from specific schools. Evocation (damage), Abjuration (protection) and transmutation (buffs) up to lvl 6 (bard progression). And an advanced learning feature 4 or 5 times through it´s career that allowed it to choose spells from any school.
+1
I was going to be mean and suggest only Abjuration and Transmutation schools. Don't really want to tread on Blaster Wizards and I feel the damage should really come from the weapons weilded rather than spells. But Frerezar's suggestion is a good one.
I'm playing in a campaign where our primary tank is a Feral Kobold Battle Sorcerer. (Battle Sorcerer is from Unearthed Arcana...I think it gives you armored casting in light armor, a +3/4 BAB, and 1d8 HD, all at the cost of 1 less spell per level per day, and maybe a reduction in the number of spells known.) Anyways, he gains Pounce from his Feral template, and has 4 natural weapons (Bite, Claw, Claw, Tail), so he likes to combine a charging Pounce with Wraithstrike (a Spell Compendium spell that casts as a swift action to make your melee attacks touch attacks for 1 round). Devestating, especially when combined with Enlarge Person and other buffs.
The rest of that party is a chaos gnome brass dragon shaman, a dark whisper gnome ninja, a mineral warrior half-orc druid with ape companion, and a catfolk ranger/swashbuckler.
So it is possible to make a fun, versatile, effective melee mage.
I'm playing in a campaign where our primary tank is a Feral Kobold Battle Sorcerer. (Battle Sorcerer is from Unearthed Arcana...I think it gives you armored casting in light armor, a +3/4 BAB, and 1d8 HD, all at the cost of 1 less spell per level per day, and maybe a reduction in the number of spells known.) Anyways, he gains Pounce from his Feral template, and has 4 natural weapons (Bite, Claw, Claw, Tail), so he likes to combine a charging Pounce with Wraithstrike (a Spell Compendium spell that casts as a swift action to make your melee attacks touch attacks for 1 round). Devestating, especially when combined with Enlarge Person and other buffs.
The rest of that party is a chaos gnome brass dragon shaman, a dark whisper gnome ninja, a mineral warrior half-orc druid with ape companion, and a catfolk ranger/swashbuckler.
So it is possible to make a fun, versatile, effective melee mage.
I agree (and an interesting example of using non-core races, I might add!).
[hint] Since I know you got a number of your own 'gish' builds, would you like to contribute your thoughts as to what an archetype should have? I'm quite curious. [/hint]