Is it just me, or is the Gentle Repose initial domain power kind of scary, from a GM's perspective?
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems like kind of a... 2 round kill for my major, big, bad villains unless they're immune to sleep effects.
Round 1, "Hi, big bad guy," touch attack, no save, staggered.
Round 2, "Goodbye, big bad guy," touch attack, no save, sleep, "Can we get a coup de grace over here please?"
|
If I'm reading it correctly, no.
Round 1: Bad guy is staggereed
Round 2: Bad guy isn't staggered. Touch again for stagger.
It lasts for one round, not two. If you have someone else that can stagger the bad guy before the Cleric, he'll fall asleep. But that's why you should have at least one elf be your bad guy.
So... if I'm tracking what you're saying, if I have this character, say, this Repose Domain cleric, that has an ability that causes, say, this staggered effect, to last one round, the effect ends at the beginning of said character's turn.
At the risk of sounding like a gang of morons, I'm not sure that's ever been how my group runs one round effects... I think we've always had the effect end after the caster's next turn.
You have a few perspectives with this domain ability.
1) Your party is smart enough to cast the slow spell and/or use a feat/spell that causes the staggered condition. In most cases, this is usually save, spell resistance, etc. followed by the gentle repose domain touch (with spell resistance, AoO, etc.). Yes, if your team is smart enough to "stack" abilities together, then they should be rewarded for this.
2) Don't allow the cleric to take the Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat out of the Bestiary. Just say NO.
3) Multiple clerics in the party with the repose domain is rough. You'll seldom be able to prevent the sleep ability *that many* times. There are many monsters/elves that are immune to sleep effects, so perhaps a DM can use that to help with balance issues.
|
So... if I'm tracking what you're saying, if I have this character, say, this Repose Domain cleric, that has an ability that causes, say, this staggered effect, to last one round, the effect ends at the beginning of said character's turn.
At the risk of sounding like a gang of morons, I'm not sure that's ever been how my group runs one round effects... I think we've always had the effect end after the caster's next turn.
Yeah I am pretty sure that the effect should be ending at the start of the character's next turn.
Edit: But I don't think you are morons if you understood it in a different way.
|
At the risk of sounding like a gang of morons, I'm not sure that's ever been how my group runs one round effects... I think we've always had the effect end after the caster's next turn.
You're not a moron, and you can keep playing that way if it works in your group, but that's not how it works in the rules as written. Full-round castings and full-round effects go from when you start the spell or the effect itself starts until the start of the initiators turn.
So, for example, a summon monster spell has the monster manifest at the start of the caster's next turn, not the end. You can see why this might be important to balance out things exactly like what you're proposing.
Full-round castings and full-round effects go from when you start the spell or the effect itself starts until the start of the initiators turn.
I definitely see the point of confusion.
1 round cast times -- or effects that last one round -- start on the turn they begin on and end *at the beginning of* the same character's turn on the next round. So if you cast/touch an enemy with gentle repose, the enemy is staggered until the beginning of your next turn.
A full-round action, however, is completed during a single turn. Thus, if I were to make a full attack using a full-round action, all the attacks would happen during my turn.
So, in short:
Full-round action *IS NOT THE SAME AS* a one round cast or an effect that lasts 1 round.
|
|
Further confusing the issue is the description of certain effects that are exceptions to this general rule, such as True Strike, which specifically says it lasts until the END of your next turn or until your next attack roll, whichever is first.
To the OP, when we switched from Beta to Final I went from having one cleric and one ranger/druid to having two barbarians. :) I'm glad to see the domains toned down as the Bleed effect was a bit much as was the Dimension Hop.
1 round cast times -- or effects that last one round -- start on the turn they begin on and end *at the beginning of* the same character's turn on the next round. So if you cast/touch an enemy with gentle repose, the enemy is staggered until the beginning of your next turn.
What you'all are saying makes perfect sense to me, and now I understand how the power isn't as overwhelmingly powerful as I thought.
Still, I don't suppose you have a page # I could refer to (regarding when a 1 round effect would end,) to show my fellow players it doesn't work the way we thought it did?
Also, sorry about the 'moron' self-comment bit. It just seemed so self evident after you'all explained it, I felt like a dope I didn't see it before.
|
|
1 round cast times -- or effects that last one round -- start on the turn they begin on and end *at the beginning of* the same character's turn on the next round. So if you cast/touch an enemy with gentle repose, the enemy is staggered until the beginning of your next turn.
What you'all are saying makes perfect sense to me, and now I understand how the power isn't as overwhelmingly powerful as I thought.
Still, I don't suppose you have a page # I could refer to (regarding when a 1 round effect would end,) to show my fellow players it doesn't work the way we thought it did?
Also, sorry about the 'moron' self-comment bit. It just seemed so self evident after you'all explained it, I felt like a dope I didn't see it before.
Per the SRD:
Cast a SpellA spell that takes one round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.
A spell that takes 1 minute to cast comes into effect just before your turn 1 minute later (and for each of those 10 rounds, you are casting a spell as a full-round action). These actions must be consecutive and uninterrupted, or the spell automatically fails.
When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the invocations, gestures, and concentration from 1 round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration after starting the spell and before it is complete, you lose the spell.
You only provoke attacks of opportunity when you begin casting a spell, even though you might continue casting for at least 1 full round. While casting a spell, you don't threaten any squares around you.
This action is otherwise identical to the cast a spell action described under Standard Actions.
The SRD should match the book. In the book this should be under the Gamemastering chapter, in the Combat section, under the header "Cast a spell". I would tell you the exact page number but I don't have my book on me...