|
Okay, so when the Warlock first appeared in Complete Arcane, I liked the concept but not the execution. When I saw the Tome of Secrets version I was even less impressed. What I waould like to see with the Warlock is either a specialist summoner that deals with demonic powers, something similar to th bard that combines the basic traits of the original warlock but with pacts similar to the sorcerer bloodlines, or something similar to the bard that has demonic inspired class features and limited spellcasting abilities. Thoughts?
Good ideas.
I have this elsewhere on the site. This is my pathfinder warlock. What do you think?
Prestige Class:
Warlock (Pathfinder)
The Warlock class presented in 3.5 does not fit as a full class in
The Pathfinder core rules simply because the Sorcerer idea of bloodlines took
It’s place. But something about the class still is distinct from the Sorcerer in the
Idea that the magic is so innate. This prestige class also brings the warlock to it’s
more historical roots.
Warlocks are Spellcasters that have either made bargains with a supernatural
entity, or having the blood of such creatures flowing through their own veins,
have decided to explore their heritage.
Alignment: Any non good. While someone perusing the path of a warlock
might good intentions, the path of a warlock is too self serving.
Hit Die: d6
Requirements
Able to cast third level arcane spells and having made
contact with an Outsider, Aberration or Fey
Or
Able to cast third level arcane spells
And having the Abyssal, Infernal, Aberration or Fey bloodline.
Class Skills
The Warlock’s class skills are Bluff, Disguise, Fly, Intimidate,
Knowledge: (Arcana), (The Planes), (Religion) , Profession,
Sense Motive, Spellcraft and Use Magic Device
Skill Ranks per Level: 2+ Intelligence Modifier
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Warlock:
Weapons and Armor Proficiency
The warlock gains no proficiency in any weapons, armor or shields.
Spells per Day: At the indicated levels, an warlock
gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a
level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before
adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any
other benefit a character of that class would have gained,
except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he
is a spontaneous Spellcaster), and an increased effective
level of spellcasting. If a character had more than
one arcane spellcasting class before becoming an
Warlock, he must decide to which class he
adds the new level for purposes of determining spells
per day.
Dark Essence (su)
Through the Chaotic, alien energies running through him, the warlock is able
to attack with a bolt of Dark energy. Dark Essence is a range touch attack with a distance of 100’ + 5’ per warlock level. This is a supernatural ability.
Damage Reduction
The Warlock gains Damage Reduction / Cold Iron
Fiendish Workings
The Warlock, being a creature of magic himself, can use and create magic items like no one else can.
Whenever he is making a Use Magic Device roll the warlock can take 10 even if distracted or threaten.
Also, the warlock can create magic items even if he cannot cast the needed spells(although he still needs the
Item creation feats to make them) He can substitute a Use Magic Device check(DC15+ Spell level for arcane and 25+spell level for divine) in place of a spell he cannot cast. If he succeeds, the warlock can create the item as if he knew the spell. If he fails then he does not expend the gp cost for making the item. He cannot retry this use magic device check for this spell until he gains a new level.
Manifestation /Dark Pact (Sp)
Depending on how the warlock took up the Prestige class, he either gains Manifestations or Dark Pacts.
Those warlocks that made deals with a powerful creature learn Pacts, while those that search out the power
of their blood exhibit Manifestations. T
he mechanics are the same for both.
The only differences is the origin of the power. .
Manifestations /Dark Pacts are at will, spell-like abilities.
While they cannot be altered by most feats,
Feats such as Maximize Spell-like ability work.
They follow all the rules for Spell-like abilities.
When determining range, duration etc refer to the spell in every other way.
Each time a warlock gains a Manifestation/ Dark Pack he picks a spell that correlates to it’s Circle.
But by doing this, the warlock takes off a spell on his spells known list (if a sorcerer) or one spell
per day (if a wizard) The spell must be different from the one chosen and must be one level higher than the Circle taken.
For example: Azazel the tiefling warlock gains a Manifestation of the 2nd Circle (equivalent to a 3rd or 4th level spell).
Azazel picks FLY, a 3rd level spell. Now Azazel can use fly all day to his heart’s content(with all the restrictions and guidelines the spell has) but now it’s a spell-like ability. BUT Azazel has to take away a 4th rd level spell from his spells known list ( in his case Greater Invisibility). Now while Azazel might be able to gain the spell back in some way, that slot is forever gone. This works the same for wizards only instead of the spell it takes away a spell per day slot.
Dark Metamorphous (Ex)
At the pinnacle (or lowest level, depending on how one sees it) the Warlock becomes the type of
being that he either struck the deal with or to whom he is related with. His type changes to either Outsider, Aberration or Fey.
Character level Advancements
BAB / Saving Throws : As Eldritch Theuge
1st level: Dark Essence 4d6 , Damage Reduction 1/ cold Iron , Manifestation/Pack (of the 1st Circle)
2ndlevel: +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class, Fiendish Workings
3rd level: Dark Essence 5d6, Damage Reduction 2/ Cold Iron , Manifestation/Pack (of the 2nd or 1st Circle)
4th level: +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
5th level Dark Essence 6d6, Damage Reduction 2/ Cold Iron , Manifestation/Pack (of the 3rd, 2nd or 1st Circle )
6th level +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
7th level Dark Essence 7d6, Damage Reduction 2/ Cold Iron , Manifestation/Pack (of the 3rd, 2nd or 1st Circle )
8th level +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
9th level Dark Essence 9d6, Damage Reduction 2/ Cold Iron , Manifestation/Pack ( of the 4th, 3rd, 2nd or 1st Circle )
10th level Dark Metamorphous
I'm working on a fairly heavy re-write. The theme changes somewhat as I refuse to directly lift WotC content. What I'm working on is more linked to the key elements than fiends/fey. Eldritch Blast is replaced by something functionally similar but using the four energy types instead of untyped damage. You can pick energy type on the fly, though you'll likely have a signature energy type that you're better with.
The big re-work is in the basic invocations. Writing a bunch of these takes time. At the moment I'm strongly leaning towards breaking invocations into two distinct paths: mantles and curses. Mantles are things to do to yourself (like flying, invisibility etc) and curses are something you do to others.
I've got a fairly cool mechanic for the curses in mind that I've got to hash out, but I think will work well.
Basically, I'm taking the warlock, shoving in some pact magic themes, and making something compatible yet open content. I figure a few more weeks, depending on how busy I get.
The theme changes somewhat as I refuse to directly lift WotC content.
See, I just don't care. As far as I'm concerned WoTC gave me and the rest of the 3.5ers the *********, and well as the rules of the road state, "Do unto others as they have done to you."
Sorry but I see no reason not to take everything WoTC did, re-tweek it, rewrite it, rename it, and throw it right back out there under a new brand name, with new class name, but recognizable enough so that everyone realizes what it is.
but that's just me ;)
-AK
|
|
Basically, I'm taking the warlock, shoving in some pact magic themes, and making something compatible yet open content. I figure a few more weeks, depending on how busy I get.
That sounds pretty neat. I wouldn't mind seeing a Warlock having a mix of potential abilities as well, with some fey, some fiendish, etc. as the 'oathbreaker' makes pacts with anyone or anything that will give him a scrap of power.
Honestly, I do think that Warlock should be more of a PrC than a base class. After all, what kind of peasant is going to have enough control to make an infernal pact and NOT get consumed within a few days/weeks? Now a spellcaster and adventurer, lusting for more power, and seeking a shortcut with Infernal powers, THERE is your Warlock...
That said, some ideas, do do with what you will...
1) Invocations. Instead of that clumsy system, why not Sorcerer spells knows or Bard spells known, taken from the Arcane or Divine spell list (but not both), as SLA's 3/day? Bard may make more sense for a base class, but I really think opening both the Arcane and Divine doors are in order.
2) DR. I hated the static "Cold Iron" DR from the old Warlock. I would base it on the alignment of the character (i.e. Cold Iron for Lawful, Silver for Chaotic). This may need to be examined, since magic bonuses can now bypass DR. I would make multiple types, but all on the "+3 to bypass" chart.
3) Eldritch Blast. Keep the energy untyped. It's just raw power. And have the old "Blast Invocations" simply come up as options along the way. They get to choose, say, every even level which ones to be able to apply from an ever growing pool of options (like the Monk bonus feats). This especially opens the door for using the Bard progression, as the EB is a more potent weapon than ever before.
4) UMD and Fendish Resiliance. Throw all that junk away! I would instead apply an Unholy bonus to a series of skills, say the CHA bonus. Maybe a new skill to be chosen every 3 levels (if a base class). And no Resiliance. Remember, they WANT you to die...
5) HD/saves. I would propose you make the base class less spell oriented and more combat oriented. Full BAB, Cleric saves, and d10's for HP, but only simple weapon proficiency + some thematic weapons (flails, axes?). Let's not have them step all over the fighters toes. Also, only light and med armor proficiency, like the cleric.
The fundamental concept I'm working around is someone who has an innate connection with... spirits. The PC makes several pacts per day with entities who otherwise might not be able to influence the material plane. The spirits a pact is made with may not in fact necessarily be evil at all, and I could see this class working for anything non-lawful.
What I'm working on won't use invocations per se. Neither will it use spells, though many of the abilities you get may reference spells for purposes of defining the mechanics. Curses are likely to be almost entirely different, at this point being de-buff themed, often not having a spell-equivalent. I want to stay as far away from spells as possible as I'm personally tired as heck of favoured souls and duskblades and whatnot that are slight tweaks to existing classes. This thing should be different but fun.
DR is likely going to get yanked. Doesn't mean you can't make a pact with some spirit to provide you some, but that's a choice you make at the cost of whatever other abilities you could have had it its place.
EB as WotC wrote it was raw power. I'm writing something equivalent but not identical to the Warlock, so I'm going in a different direction. As for blast-shape invocations I do plan to embed those in the class itself. You no longer will have to choose between something interesting and something mechanically necessary.
UMD is going to stay. I'd like to build something that can fill the shoes of the Sorcerer and Wizard without being one. UMD is the glue that binds. Without it, a party is too easily one scroll use away from success. With it, at a cost the job can be done.
HD/saves... good news. I fully intend to do something similar to the ranger in that the class will present two major paths: ranged and melee. You'll always be able to do both, but you get a couple benefits when using your specialty. It's staying 2/3rds BAB progression and d8. I figure to keep it in light armor but build some pacts that can be made to help with AC, but I haven't got that far down the build path yet. Maybe it still gets medium. We'll see.
Basically, I intend to build a single class that is mechanically simple, yet flexible. What I've got up my sleeve should be conceptually easy to grasp and stat, but takes mechanical cues from... oh... psions (open choice of energy types), warlocks (EB equivalent, hideous blow, invocation equivalent), binders (where the power behind the invocation-equivalent comes from), incarnum (what the invocation-equivalent acts like), martial initiators (how curses will be handled), and rangers (ranged/melee specialties). Strangely all that should brew down to a clean design. Looks like I should have time to nail down a few more details tomorrow.
Honestly, the Pathfinder Sorcerer has knocked the pants off the 3.5 Warlock. Everything flavorwise that the 3.5 or even the spiffed up 4e Warlock has--magical inheritance or bequest from Hell, Faerie, or the Far Realms--is neatly summed up in the Pathfinder Sorcerer Bloodlines, and there are more besides. And the flavors make more sense: Someone empowered by Hell should be blasting people with Hellfire. Someone with Fey powers? Not so much, at least if you want anything approaching the fey of myth and legend.
|
I think that the Dragon Disciple prestige class gives us a good example of how to 'fix' or 'update' the Warlock. Make it a prestige class that builds off of the Infernal bloodline of sorcerer. Sure, the eldritch blast would be lost, but you can then add in some abilities to really suit the class better. Just my 2 copper.
I think it would be neat if there were many specific, unique, types of critters that warlocks could make pacts with. Instead of just Fey, there would be the Mebd, Oberon, Puck, and Titania. Instead of just Infernal, there would Asmodeus, Bel, Dis, and Tiamat. Instead of just Aberration, there would Cthulu, Dr. Zoidberg, etc.
Each Pact Lord (or Lady, or Whatever), would provide a bonus class skill, a different type of DR (cold iron, silver, adamantine, chaotic, bludgeoning, lawful, piercing, good, evil, slashing, -, etc.), a different type of energy (or energy-like) resistance (acid, cold, electricity, fire, sonic, negative energy, positive energy, force, light, darkness, etc.), a different type of "fiendish" resilience (Fast Healing, Energy Shield, Saving Throw Bonus (vs. poison, fear, paralysis, charms, enchantments, illusions, petrification, polymorph, disease, curses, etc. etc.), Natural Armor Bonus, etc. etc.).
For what it's worth (in case anyone may find it useful) this is my base class conversion of the warlock. It's inspired by many of the approaches by other converters on these boards but I've tried to keep it balanced and not as overpowered (IMHO) as many I've seen. Comments welcome.
Warlock
This updated class for the Pathfinder RPG incorporates class features of the Warlock class in Complete Arcane and the Hexblade class in Complete Warrior. Unless otherwise stated below, this class uses the rules as per the Warlock class.
Hit Die: d8.
Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Progression
1 eldritch blast 1d6, least invocations, 1 invocation
2 warlock's curse 1/day, 2 invocations
3 eldritch blast 2d6, 2 invocations
4 star-crossed aura 1/day, 3 invocations
5 eldritch blast 3d6, 4 invocations
6 lesser invocations, warlock's curse 2/day, 5 invocations
7 eldritch blast 4d6, 5 invocations
8 greater warlock's curse, 6 invocations
9 eldritch blast 5d6, 7 invocations
10 warlock's curse 3/day, 8 invocations
11 eldritch blast 6d6, greater invocations, 8 invocations
12 star-crossed aura 2/day, 9 invocations
13 eldritch blast 7d6, 10 invocations
14 warlock's curse 4/day, 11 invocations
15 eldritch blast 8d6, 11 invocations
16 dark invocations, dire warlock's curse, 12 invocations
17 eldritch blast 9d6, 13 invocations
18 warlock's curse 5/day, 14 invocations
19 eldritch blast 10d6, 14 invocations
20 eldritch apotheosis, star-crossed aura 3/day, 15 invocations
Class Features
Eldritch Blast (Sp): The first ability a warlock learns is eldritch blast. A warlock attacks his foes with eldritch power, using baleful magical energy to deal damage and sometimes impart other debilitating effects. An eldritch blast is a ray with a range of 60 feet that can be used at will. It is a ranged touch attack that affects a single target, allowing no saving throw. An eldritch blast deals 1d6 points of damage which increases by 1d6 every two warlock levels thereafter. The caster level of an eldritch blast is equal to the warlock's class level.
An eldritch blast is an invocation and is the equivalent of a 1st-level spell. Other invocations provide a warlock with the ability to modify his eldritch blast or add new eldritch attacks. If you apply a blast shape or eldritch essence invocation to your eldritch blast, your eldritch blast uses the level equivalent of the shape or essence.
An eldritch blast is subject to spell resistance, although the Spell Penetration feat and other effects that improve caster level checks to overcome spell resistance also apply to eldritch blast. An eldritch blast deals half damage to objects. Metamagic feats cannot improve a warlock's eldritch blast (because it is a spell-like ability, not a spell). However, the Ability Focus, Empower Spell-Like Ability, and Quicken Spell-Like Ability feats can improve a warlock's eldritch blast (see pages 314-315 of the Pathfinder Bestiary).
Warlock's Curse (Su): Once per day, as a free action, a warlock can unleash a curse upon a foe. The target must be visible to the warlock and within 60 feet. The target of a warlock's curse takes a -2 penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls for 1 hour thereafter. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 warlock's class level + warlock's Cha modifier) negates the effect.
At every four levels beyond 2nd (6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th) a warlock gains the ability to use his curse one additional time per day. Multiple warlock's curses don't stack, and any foe that successfully resists the effect cannot be affected by the same warlock's curse for 24 hours. Any effect that removes or dispels a curse eliminates the effect of a warlock's curse.
Star-Crossed Aura (Su): Once per day, a warlock of 4th level or higher can create a baleful aura of misfortune. Any melee or ranged attack made against the warlock while this star-crossed aura is active has a 20% miss chance (similar to the effect of concealment). Activating the aura is a free action, and the aura lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the warlock's Charisma bonus (if any).
At 12th level and higher, a warlock can use his star-crossed aura twice per day. A 20th level warlock can activate this aura three times per day.
Greater Warlock's Curse (Su): When a warlock attains 8th level, the penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls incurred by a target of the warlock's curse becomes -4 instead of -2.
Dire Warlock's Curse (Su): When you attain 16th level, the penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls incurred by a target of your curse becomes -6 instead of -4.
Eldritch Apotheosis (Sp): At 20th level, your body surges with eldritch power. You can use a full round action to use two eldritch blasts in the same round. The second eldritch blast takes a -5 penalty to its attack roll. Further, when you use the eldritch blast ability, you can apply two different eldritch essence invocations simultaneously. The effects of each essence are resolved separately. If you imbue your eldritch blast with two different types of damage, half of the damage (rounded down) is dealt by each source. All eldritch blasts used in the same round must have the same shape and essence, if any. They can target the same or different opponents.
|
I like the idea of a caster that wasn't trained like the wizard or of a special bloodline like the sorcerer. A caster who doesn't cast spells but can blast instead as spell-like abilities. As much as I hate to admit it, 4E is kinda a good thing for the Warlock in that they had different flavors of Warlock, which I do like the idea of.
Another kind of related class is the Binder. IMHO they are kind of related. Neither can cast "magic missile" or other actual spells but have abilites derived from magic. IMHO that is what the warlock is about...a arcane based class that actually doesn't cast spells but has spell like abilities.
|
|
Right now I'm considering building the Warlock 2.0 along the lines of the Dragon Shaman from PHB II. No spell casting abilities, but a lot of pact boons that give them a variety of different advantages based on which ones they are using. Right now I am considering these pacts:
Celestial
Fey
Infernal
Shadow
Star
Right now I'm considering building the Warlock 2.0 along the lines of the Dragon Shaman from PHB II. No spell casting abilities, but a lot of pact boons that give them a variety of different advantages based on which ones they are using. Right now I am considering these pacts:
Celestial
Fey
Infernal
Shadow
Star
Okay, okay. I'll get off my butt and get back to my version. I've got 50+ curses written and a large number of mantles. What's been holding me back is trying to determine what level is appropriate for each. Guess I know what I'm doing tonight.
...Right now I am considering these pacts:
Celestial
Fey
Infernal
Shadow
Star
How about Axiomatic (Law) and Chaos pacts? It would make sense for the Axiomatics and Proteans to bestow pacts on mortal agents to further their own war against each other.
Maybe split Infernal into Infernal and Abyssal pacts too?
I had thought about it, but I'm afraid of overwhelming myself.
Just seeding ideas, nothing more. :) Whatever you do, this is supposed to be fun; don't get stressed out or burned out on it.
I have done a conversion of the Warlock here:
I makes some pretty big changes in the class, but keeps it in line with existing core and base classes. I would love to get your thoughts and ideas on it.
Master Arminas
Here is my take on a pathfinder warlock:
Warlock
And here is mine. It is not conversion, instead it is a more of a reinterpretation.