I noticed a peculiarity in the PFRPG. There seems to be no table to show real sizes of creatures or objects of the various size categories. So, you only have large or huge or small or gargantuan or whatnot creatures and objects, but you are never told how big or small these are in feet or yards. So, without having the 3.5 core rulebooks, you will have a hard time in this regard.
Another strange thing: According to the combat modifiers table 8-4, the biggest creatures or objects have a space of 30 ft. Is there no dragon or giant or ocean vessel in this game which is longer than five or six times a human being?
30' is 5 times longer than a human is tall, but probably 10 times wider than a human.
Table 8-4 only expresses the space needed by these creatures. For actual size you need to consult the PFB.Ocean vessels are generally not creatures (which is what 8-4 describes).
I noticed a peculiarity in the PFRPG. There seems to be no table to show real sizes of creatures or objects of the various size categories. So, you only have large or huge or small or gargantuan or whatnot creatures and objects, but you are never told how big or small these are in feet or yards. So, without having the 3.5 core rulebooks, you will have a hard time in this regard.
There's a table that tells you how tall and long a creature of a certain size is - Table: Creature Size and Scale. It's on this page.
Another strange thing: According to the combat modifiers table 8-4, the biggest creatures or objects have a space of 30 ft. Is there no dragon or giant or ocean vessel in this game which is longer than five or six times a human being?
A creature that is larger than colossal can probably be broken up into parts. For instance, let's say you have a giant colossus that hundreds of feet tall. It's hands are probably colossal-sized hands (30 ft./30 ft.) and similar dimensions for the feet, head, etc.
To be honest, if something is larger than 6 squares by 6 squares, it's a little awkward to manipulate it on a grid |:
Oh, that table refers to reach and space. . .
Umm, each monster generally has a description that tells you weight and dimensions.
For instance, trolls:
Trolls stand about 14 feet tall, but their hunched postures often make them appear shorter. An adult troll weighs around 1,000 pounds.
And Dire Apes:
An adult male ape is 8 feet tall and can weigh as much as 400 pounds.
While both those creatures are considered large, it's assumed that creatures don't actually fill up the squares they're in (unless it's something like a gelatinous cube).
Oh, that table refers to reach and space. . .
So it seems they really forgot to include a size and scale table ... That sucks, because when you are going to create your own monsters or try to figure out the size modifier of a 80 feet three-master for attacking it with your ballista, you have to do an awful lot of cross-referencing - or consulting 3.5 ...
I really do not think that kind of table is very useful.
As for all aspects of creation you will need to compare your monster with similar creatures from the PFB in order to assess its capabilities and challenge rating. Figuring out the creatures actual space and size should be easy when you get to that point.
Generalizing tables are only useful as a guideline, and can easily lead you to erroneous conclusions if you do not compare the monster with similar creatures.
An example could be the lamia noble. har actual length is probably close to 25' which would mean she lands on the huge end of such a table, while she actually is only large sized.
Yeah, I also recently wanted to know about size categories. It's all well and good to know that a Tiny creature has a space of 2 1/2 feet, but what about the flavor?
Player: How tall are these creatures?
GM: Uh... well... they each take a quarter square on the map.
Now and then, I find these little things that PFRPG is missing. Or did I just fail to find it? If it's not there, that's a shame. For those who, like me, want to know about height (or length, for quadrupeds) and weight, I'd like to provide a table. It doesn't look so pretty here, because tabs don't show up on these messageboards, but you'll get the idea.
I now quote from the 3.0 SRD:
Table: Creature Sizes
Size AC/Attack Modifier Dimension* Weight**
---- ------------------ ---------- --------
Fine +8 6 in. or less 1/8 lb. or less
Diminutive +4 6 in.-1 ft. 1/8 lb.-1 lb.
Tiny +2 1 ft.-2 ft. 1 lb.-8 lb.
Small +1 2 ft.-4 ft. 8 lb.-60 lb.
Medium 0 4 ft.-8 ft. 60 lb.-500 lb.
Large -1 8 ft.-16 ft. 500 lb.-4,000 lb.
Huge -2 16 ft.-32 ft. 4,000 lb.-32,000 lb.
Gargantuan -4 32 ft.-64 ft. 32,000 lb.-250,000 lb.
Colossal -8 64 ft. or more 250,000 lb. or more
*Biped's height, quadruped's body length (nose to base of tail).
**-Assumes that the creature is roughly as dense as a regular animal. A creature made of stone will weigh considerably more. A gaseous creature will weigh much less.
Okay, I must be fair. My griping in the previous post shouldn't have been directed to PFRPG. My excuse is that I played a lot of 3.0, and little 3.5, before switching to PFRPG, so I'm not familiar with 3.5.
I just looked through my 3.5 rulebooks, and I didn't find the height / length and weight guidelines in THOSE, either. Like outdoor spotting DCs, those guidelines from 3.0 disappeared in 3.5, for some reason, so I could blame 3.5.
(Mind you, theoretically, PFRPG could have included those things missing from 3.5. After all, 3.0 is OGL too.)
Okay, I must be fair. My griping in the previous post shouldn't have been directed to PFRPG. My excuse is that I played a lot of 3.0, and little 3.5, before switching to PFRPG, so I'm not familiar with 3.5.
I just looked through my 3.5 rulebooks, and I didn't find the height / length and weight guidelines in THOSE, either. Like outdoor spotting DCs, those guidelines from 3.0 disappeared in 3.5, for some reason, so I could blame 3.5.
(Mind you, theoretically, PFRPG could have included those things missing from 3.5. After all, 3.0 is OGL too.)
The same table (although with some minor changes) is in the 3.5 Monster Manual (page 314).
Ah yes. I see it now.
I guess I CAN gripe about PFRPG after all. :)
The rule of thumb in 3.x was that Medium is 4 to 8 feet, and every size category alters it by a factor of two (so increasing size doubles it, decreasing halves it). This tallies precisely with the table quoted above. Importantly, the space a creature takes up on a combat grid does not represent this precise measurement of size (otherwise every Collosal creature would basically be 13 x13 squares or more).
The space of a creature is sort of a "combat footprint", so while laid out nose to tail with wings spread that Collosal dragon would stretch over 60' in all directions, in terms of the ground space it takes up when active, it's only covering a 30x30 area (pretty much where it's body without neck and tail lies), and can reach another 20' with its extremities to make effective attacks (longer with its bite).