Okay, I've liked elemental mages for a long, long time, and I decided I actually want to try and build school powers for them. If others would be willing to help come up with ideas, I'd appreciate it, but my thoughts are still in the beginning of brainstorming for how they would work.
What I've thought about thus far:
I'd like five variants in all. The four 'classic' elements (fire, water, air, and earth, just like the Elemental Bloodline of the sorcerer) and a 5th 'Master of the Four Elements'. The last would likely be just a variant of the Universal School Wizard, since I'm leery to give him too many advantages. I've primarily considered the Master of the Four, so I'd like to present what I have.
Master of the Four Elements: Replacing Hand of the Apprentice I see something along the lines of Produce Flame, but allow different energy types. Likely as not this would limit the damage of the ability a fair amount, and I think that limiting the range would be a good idea. As for Metamagic Mastery, I was thinking that perhaps replace the ability to spontaneously add metamagic feats with the ability to spontaneously change the energy type of a energy spell like fireball with one of the other energy types. Just like Energy Substitution, but keep it at the same rate of 1/day at 8th level, and 1 additional time per day per two levels. I'm not certain how well this will work, but as I said, it's my initial thoughts.
Elementalists: Honestly, trying to work these out is what makes me most hesitant. I'm thinking that they'll choose one of the other elements as a forbidden 'school', but I'm not certain how to categorize the spells. Those with specific subtypes? That do particular types of energy damage? It's a slippery slope that is going to take some work to figure out, and I would appreciate some ideas. That said, I was initially thinking that you would choose an element, and its opposite would become your opposed school, but I realized that there's a lot more variance than that. I can imagine Fire Mages who focus on heat which means that they might use Cold spells, which would mean that they couldn't have Water as an opposed school, which was why I was looking at letting them choose their opposed element.
Pardon my rambling, but if anyone is interested in helping work out these ideas, I would appreciate it. Thank you.
I'm working on this for the elven wizards of my homebrew, and I will gladly share some insights with you once I find where I put that file on my hard drive...
I'm working on this for the elven wizards of my homebrew, and I will gladly share some insights with you once I find where I put that file on my hard drive...
*nods* I'd love it, though I'm working on a weird idea of my own right now. I'm drawing a compass with each element, and then giving each a school of magic, with one school in between each set of elements. It's taking some consideration to decide where they go. I actually think that Evocation goes between Air and Fire...
Okay, I think I've got a basic framework for how to work the Elemental 'Schools', so if anyone has comments, please let me know. I'm sure I'll make a hash of explaining this, so ask questions if necessary.
There are 4 Primary Schools, and 4 Secondary Schools. Primary Schools are associated with a single Element, and Secondaries are made by mixing two Elements. Detailed as follows
Air: Enchantment
Earth: Necromancy
Fire: Conjuration
Water: Divination
Now for Secondary Schools:
Air and Fire: Evocation
Fire and Earth: Transmutation
Earth and Water: Abjuration
Water and Air: Illusion
Now, I know that the schools don't entirely fit, I'm just trying to assign them as best as I see them. Now, with a few exceptions, I'm looking at having the Primary School of your chosen elements and it's two Secondary derivatives being where you have to prepare your Bonus Spells for being a specialist from. Conversely, you treat your Forbidden School as banned. No spells from it, save for the exceptions later, and no activating Spell-Completion or Spell Trigger items from it. The two Secondaries associated with your Forbidden School are treated as Core Opposition Schools. For now I'm assuming that you don't get to choose your Oppositional Element.
Now for the exceptions. A Elementalist can cast any spell with their Element as a Descriptor, even if it is in their Banned School as if it was in their Primary School. (I.E. Summon Monster for Water Elementals as a Water Mage) They may also cast any spell of their Elemental Energy type, which uses the same association as the Sorcerer Elemental Bloodline. And anyone can prepare or cast Detect Magic or Read Magic, regardless if it is opposed.
I haven't gotten into specialist abilities, preferring to figure this part out first. As per normal, any help/critiquing is appreciated.
The 4Winds book on classes coming next month apparently has the Elementalist Wizard
I think there was a chart in the second ed PHB that had where the elements fell along wizard-school lines. I'll see if I can find it.
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Here is how I might go about spell classification.
Air: Illusions and spells having to do with travel. Divinations might go here as well, as might conjuration(summoning) and conjuration(calling) spells.
Earth: Abjuration, and possible necromancy. Buffs that give physical bonuses(Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, etc)
Fire: Evocations, some conjuration spells, and enchantments.
Water: Transmutaion, and healing spells.
I think there was a chart in the second ed PHB that had where the elements fell along wizard-school lines. I'll see if I can find it.
If you would? I think my girlfriend has a copy of the 2e Player's Handbook, but I don't know for certain.
Here is how I might go about spell classification.
Air: Illusions and spells having to do with travel. Divinations might go here as well, as might conjuration(summoning) and conjuration(calling) spells.
Earth: Abjuration, and possible necromancy. Buffs that give physical bonuses(Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, etc)
Fire: Evocations, some conjuration spells, and enchantments.
Water: Transmutaion, and healing spells.
I understand your view, and actually agree on some things, but there are two foci to my goal. 1) I don't want to re-do a spell list. I want to create an Elementalist Wizard, and I don't want to have to over-complicate things with adding healing spells to the list. 2) I don't want to try to categorize all of the spells into completely new lists. That's why I went with the method that I did above.
The 4Winds book on classes coming next month apparently has the Elementalist Wizard
That's correct! :-) We will present the Elemental Wizard class options in Paths of Power, which we will have out in November.
Connie Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
Hmm...I'll have to take a look, but I'm unfortunately a little hesitant about 3PPs. Mostly due to early 3.0 and a few powergamers I've met, though. I'll take a look, though.
Hmm...I'll have to take a look, but I'm unfortunately a little hesitant about 3PPs. Mostly due to early 3.0 and a few powergamers I've met, though. I'll take a look, though.
As someone who has enjoyed 4Winds' stuff most recently(as recently as yesterday in fact! ;-) ) I can say that this stuff will probably not break the game/be unbalanced/make pancakes less delicious. I stand by their stuff so far.
As someone who has enjoyed 4Winds' stuff most recently(as recently as yesterday in fact! ;-) ) I can say that this stuff will probably not break the game/be unbalanced/make pancakes less delicious. I stand by their stuff so far.
Well, we certainly appreciate that glowing endorsement!
And since I really like pancakes, you can bet that everything we produce will endeavor to not reduce the deliciousness of said pancakes. :D
Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
As someone who has enjoyed 4Winds' stuff most recently(as recently as yesterday in fact! ;-) ) I can say that this stuff will probably not break the game/be unbalanced/make pancakes less delicious. I stand by their stuff so far.Well, we certainly appreciate that glowing endorsement!
And since I really like pancakes, you can bet that everything we produce will endeavor to not reduce the deliciousness of said pancakes. :D
Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
Actually there was some discussion over having the 5th element be pancakes, with all of the magic of the class involving griddles, syrup, and butter, in some fashion.
And now I'm thinking of Milla Jovovich covered in butter and syrup.
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...I'll be back later.
What about for a 5th type instead of doing a master of four type you made the 5th masters of aether/essence? Basically focused on meta-magic. Similar to the Incantarix from Realms.
Or made the fifth "masters of spirit".
-Weylin
'tis a thought, but not what I'm going for. I'm thinking more...dang it, can't remember the Greek Philosopher...*goes to wiki...doesn't find it, consults second source...* Huh, I was basing mine of Plato's compilation, but Aristotle used Aether as his fifth element. But in any case, trying to fit that into the schools of magic could be...difficult. Though I will say that I love the Incantatrix. Hmm...I'd almost see them as wielders of Prime from Mage: The Ascension...
Cydeth,Then how about this. The Master of Four is a prestige class. That sort fo set-up strikes me more as prestige than core. Have Energy Substitution as a required feat for entry into the prestige class.
And probably a widely feared-respected prestige class at that. with mastery of four elemental forms, he is likely to have something to get past most resistances and immunities.
-Weylin
Again, neat idea, but there are two problems I see.
A) I don't want to use any 3.5 material when building this class. I want it to stand on its own purely for Pathfinder.
B) I don't like the idea of it being a prestige class because it would pretty much require the character to be a base Generalist Wizard, which doesn't really fit, and you wouldn't be able to go with the theme as easily.
The 4Winds book on classes coming next month apparently has the Elementalist WizardThat's correct! :-) We will present the Elemental Wizard class options in Paths of Power, which we will have out in November.
Connie Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
See. I told ya
And not for nothing, but the Book of Arcane Magic was good. So, I would give this book a shot
You should really dig up an old al-Qadim book.
"Elemental Wizards" choose a favored Element and opposed, but the point of the Elements isn't so much the linked Evocation Energy Damage, but that they REPLACE Magic Schools (in terms of specialization & in-character flavor, the schools still exist technically) so a Water Mage's spells will include obvious Water spells, but also spells which are "water like".
In other words, all the NON-obviously Element/Energy linked spells are also classed as an Element, i.e. Dominate Person, Teleportation, Shield, Summon Monster, etc. I don't have my al-Qadim books handy, but the basic rules about Elements-as-Schools should be transposable on top of PRPG/ 3.x. If you can find the al-Qadim books, they already classified all the Core Spells into Elements for you, so it's easy to use/ show your players.
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I'd like five variants in all. The four 'classic' elements (fire, water, air, and earth, just like the Elemental Bloodline of the sorcerer)
Since the game already has Elemental Bloodline Sorcerers, I'd be tempted to go a little sideways (and away from the Energy type associations) and have the Fire Wizard continue flinging balls of fire at people (having a variant of Produce Fire, allowing him to hold a fireball as torch all day long, but only getting to fling 3+Int mod fire attacks per day, for instance), the Air Wizard produce a single target Gust of Wind effect that acts as a single person Bull Rush (perhaps doing some nonlethal damage), the Water Wizard producing a jet of water that acts like the Geyser function of a Decanter of Endless Water and an Earth Wizard creating and magically hurling increasingly weighty stones at people.
You should really dig up an old al-Qadim book.
"Elemental Wizards" choose a favored Element and opposed, but the point of the Elements isn't so much the linked Evocation Energy Damage, but that they REPLACE Magic Schools (in terms of specialization & in-character flavor, the schools still exist technically) so a Water Mage's spells will include obvious Water spells, but also spells which are "water like".
In other words, all the NON-obviously Element/Energy linked spells are also classed as an Element, i.e. Dominate Person, Teleportation, Shield, Summon Monster, etc. I don't have my al-Qadim books handy, but the basic rules about Elements-as-Schools should be transposable on top of PRPG/ 3.x. If you can find the al-Qadim books, they already classified all the Core Spells into Elements for you, so it's easy to use/ show your players.
Hmmm, never saw any of the al-Qadim material, but we are using elements as schools; ie you choose an elemental school and gain specialist benefits from it, and cannot learn any spells from it's opposing school.
There is an IMMENSE amount of data in The Great Elemental Netbook - parts one and two.
Google it.
I use that and convert it from 2nd ed for my game.
I have a Elemental Wizard that got one spell from each element and each para element as the specialist bonus ones...
Hrrm...after thinking about things, I think I'm going to wait until I see the 4 Wind version before working on my own version of Elemental mage. But even if I do, I'm not going to be changing spell lists/schools. I don't see a reason to, and it helps integrate new material a lot easier if I don't.