Okay, I've been going over Seeker of Secrets over the last day since I got it, and I have a few issues that have shown up while reading it.
First, let me say that I love the material on ioun stones inside it, and a lot of the adventure ideas as well as the prestige classes. They all fit the feel I expected.
The problem came when I was looking at how to integrate characters into the Adventure Paths. The thing that jumped out at me was that all potential Pathfinders were required to present themselves at Absalom, and then spend (most likely) Three Years training there. That would take almost any character who decides that they want to join them in mid-game out of the entire campaign! And it also severely limits the ability of a player to build their history if they want to be a Pathfinder. Either they have to build their history around being a Pathfinder, or they have to be one of the 'extremely rare' individuals that draw the eye of Venture-Captains and gets promoted on the spot. Both trouble me.
On the side, there was another note of annoyance. In Pathfinder #2 it lists Sir Canayven Heidmarch as a Ranger 8, and his wife Sheila Heidmarch as a Fighter 3/ Monk 4. In Seeker of Secrets Sir Canayven is listed as a Rogue 3/ Aristocrat 3, and Sheila as a Sorcerer 6. I just want to know what is supposed to be accurate.
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In Pathfinder #2 it lists Sir Canayven Heidmarch as a Ranger 8, and his wife Sheila Heidmarch as a Fighter 3/ Monk 4. In Seeker of Secrets Sir Canayven is listed as a Rogue 3/ Aristocrat 3, and Sheila as a Sorcerer 6. I just want to know what is supposed to be accurate.
would say to go with the levels in seekers. The first few Ap volumes were developed before the world was fully planned out (In fact as I understand it, the writers originally thought that they were doing another Dungeon AP, until the news about the mags went public, so they didn't even know these characters would even have the ability to come up again)
As to your other question, there is no particular time frame in between AP volumes. you can say the three years pass if you want.. Also (I havn't read Seekers yet, but) I think seekers was kind of an additional primer for the PFS organized play, which all players are already part of the society, going through that 3 year training regiment
In Pathfinder #2 it lists Sir Canayven Heidmarch as a Ranger 8, and his wife Sheila Heidmarch as a Fighter 3/ Monk 4. In Seeker of Secrets Sir Canayven is listed as a Rogue 3/ Aristocrat 3, and Sheila as a Sorcerer 6. I just want to know what is supposed to be accurate.would say to go with the levels in seekers. The first few Ap volumes were developed before the world was fully planned out (In fact as I understand it, the writers originally thought that they were doing another Dungeon AP, until the news about the mags went public, so they didn't even know these characters would even have the ability to come up again)
As to your other question, there is no particular time frame in between AP volumes. you can say the three years pass if you want.. Also (I havn't read Seekers yet, but) I think seekers was kind of an additional primer for the PFS organized play, which all players are already part of the society, going through that 3 year training regiment
I can understand the view on the characters, but you have to realize that while they detailed out the grounds of the Heidmarch's manor, they didn't go into almost any more detail, and in some cases less detail on the Heidmarch's than they did in the overview of Magnimar in Pathfinder #2. The pair of them never appeared in the adventure proper, which is why that concerned me.
As for the other, almost all the Adventure Paths seem, at least to me, to have a pressing timeline. Yes, you can rule that there are three years between sections, but that's only if you're the GM. Mind, I usually am, but when I'm playing I don't have that luxury. I like to come up with things and join the organizations in game, and not have to take myself out of things for that long of a period of time. And in my opinion, if it's supposed to be a supplement for PFS organized play, they should have said so. It's just...overall the feel of the organization has been making it harder and harder to use for my games, which honestly sucks. Not that it isn't a cool organization, but the unclear rules of the organization, the unofficial requirement to follow orders, and everything else is starting to make me wonder how the group could even function. Why are the members individualist, independent operatives when they're required to spend three years as unpaid servants, for all intents and purposes? It seems far more regimented, and almost like boot camp, which doesn't seem to lend to being independent.
And to point out, they copied a good chunk of the Pathfinder information directly from Pathfinder #1, yet the new rules mean that one of the NPCs in the story had been informed that she was no longer under consideration to become a member of the Pathfinders as an initiate. She was in Magnimar, when by the new rules she had to present herself all the way down in Absalom. It makes no sense to me for them to have all of these lodges if you can't even apply for membership at them.
Exceptional candidates will find ways to get around the normal training period. If some 10th- or even 5th-level experienced adventurers want to become adventurers, the Pathfinders should run some perfunctory tests, do a background check, and fully certify them.
It's "rare" in the sense of "of the thousands of active Pathfinders, maybe 20 never went through the standard 3-year training." If in your campaign 4 of those 20 happen to be your PCs, that just makes your PCs that much cooler.
(I had issues with the training time as well, and made sure the allowances for exceptional candidates was much more prominent for the very reasons you state.)
Thank you for taking the time to reply, and thank you for clarifying things. That makes it much, much easier for me to work it in in subsequent games. Though my current one is going to alter the rules a little, just so that they can keep going with the quest. I'm having them petition to join, and they're going on minor quests to prove themselves. If they do well, they can go to Absalom to take basic tests. But that's my game, and the fact that there are about 20 in thousands of pathfinders who get in without the training does help. I was afraid it would be closer to 1 in 1000. Again, thank you for your time, and a wonderful product.
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I'm having them petition to join, and they're going on minor quests to prove themselves. If they do well, they can go to Absalom to take basic tests. But that's my game, and the fact that there are about 20 in thousands of pathfinders who get in without the training does help. I was afraid it would be closer to 1 in 1000. Again, thank you for your time, and a wonderful product.
I would think that 'basic tests' would get harder as they went on, allowing for candidates to 'test out' of various stages of the training, similar to what colleges do with AP credits and testing out of various math classes (I had a friend who tested out of his first two years of classes for his major)
*nods* That's about what I was doing. Right now they're investigating a relatively unimportant map that leads into the Lurkwood of Varisia, and I'm considering what to have the structure they're moving toward contain. Right now I'm thinking to have the unusual seasons of the wood itself be because of the wood and the fey First World being very close at that point. The wood itself is going to be existing in both places. But I'm thinking (as of this moment) that they're going to find information on how, and why, this came about in the time of Thassilon. But we'll see how things go.
By the way, the idea of these tests being taken by very-skilled established adventurers reminds me of a scene in the bookMatadora by Steve Perry. The protagonist (a talented fighter) is taken to join a group of secret martial artists, and they bring her to a room where there are a pattern of numbered footprints on the floor, starting with 1 and counting sequentially upward. They tell her to step on them as best she can. She handles the first few easily, barely manages the next three, almost loses her balance on the 7th, and barely manages to land her foot on the 8th one before falling. The guys tell her she's going to be placed in the advanced class. She protests, saying she doesn't know anything about their style of combat, and her guide tells her, "the man who founded this monastery only reached the sixth step on his first try. You belong in the advanced class."
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By the way, the idea of these tests being taken by very-skilled established adventurers reminds me of a scene in the bookMatadora by Steve Perry.
I was more thinking the Odyssey and shooting the arrow through all of the axe handles...
Yeah, if you want the test to come down to a single d20 roll.... ;)
*laughs* That's one way to do it, I suppose. I just thought I'd have them throw a map and vague guidelines at the party, and see how well they chronicle their journey, what they figure out, and how well they report. And if they do well, give them new missions that are better selected to help them overcome their shortcomings.
As with Sean, I just wanted to reiterate that a lot of the concerns in this thread can be addressed by the "Field Commissions" sidebar on page 7.
A lot of this may depend on play style. Actually, I think the guidelines may work BEST for a home game, instead of linked, ongoing "living" games. In a home game, if 4 PCs happen to be an exceptional case, that just underscores they're special, and will do amazing things. In a "living" kind of environment, you may meet 50 people like that over 10 sessions, including a random selection of them in any PUG.
But it is nice to know what the normal guidelines are too, both when RPing as GM, and if a PC begins life as one, or picks it up during a downtime intermission.
A lot of this may depend on play style. Actually, I think the guidelines may work BEST for a home game, instead of linked, ongoing "living" games. In a home game, if 4 PCs happen to be an exceptional case, that just underscores they're special, and will do amazing things. In a "living" kind of environment, you may meet 50 people like that over 10 sessions, including a random selection of them in any PUG.
But it is nice to know what the normal guidelines are too, both when RPing as GM, and if a PC begins life as one, or picks it up during a downtime intermission.
*nods* That's my biggest concern, really. The training concept I can deal with, I'm just surprised that it can't occur at the Lodges around the world. *shrugs again* But I'll probably just tweak things for my games, I suppose.
See, considering that lodges are independently run, it's entirely possible for some semi-rogue venture-captain to start training people the way HE thinks they should be trained, and all of a sudden he's cranking out "fully-trained" Pathfinders, or giving field commissions to anyone he thinks is appropriate. I can see Absalom HQ having a problem with that, and insisting that anyone who's going to be called a Pathfinder go through their screening process and testing before actually getting the name.
After all, your local Army recruiter may have the authority to recruit you, but he doesn't have the authority to put you through a local "boot camp" and then declare you a fully-trained member of the Army.
See, considering that lodges are independently run, it's entirely possible for some semi-rogue venture-captain to start training people the way HE thinks they should be trained, and all of a sudden he's cranking out "fully-trained" Pathfinders, or giving field commissions to anyone he thinks is appropriate. I can see Absalom HQ having a problem with that, and insisting that anyone who's going to be called a Pathfinder go through their screening process and testing before actually getting the name.
After all, your local Army recruiter may have the authority to recruit you, but he doesn't have the authority to put you through a local "boot camp" and then declare you a fully-trained member of the Army.
Makes a lot of sense. Hmm...maybe the local Venture-Captain has been getting tired of the typical training, and instead is handing out missions to train potential Pathfinders specifically to help them pretty much skip the training? Not trying to give them the full-fledged Pathfinder name, but give them enough experience that the Absalom Lodge grudgingly passes them through... That could work, maybe. Might still make HQ grumpy, though.
You could also set it up as a "local cops vs. the feds" in terms of jurisdiction....
You could also set it up as a "local cops vs. the feds" in terms of jurisdiction....
*giggles* That is evil! I love it!
