Are they still considered proficient with all martial weapons or was that done away with?
You can check it out for yourself here:
Thanks.. found it. I was hoping they would do away with that. Oh well :)
So... why were you hoping they would do away with it?
Thanks.. found it. I was hoping they would do away with that. Oh well :)
Because a little baby tiefling born to a peasant woman who can't afford a dagger let alone a martial weapon shouldn't automatically know how to use a halberd better than anyone else :)
Because a little baby tiefling born to a peasant woman who can't afford a dagger let alone a martial weapon shouldn't automatically know how to use a halberd better than anyone else :)
Well, not until the voices start whispering in his ear, telling him how to kill . .
Well, not until the voices start whispering in his ear, telling him how to kill . .Because a little baby tiefling born to a peasant woman who can't afford a dagger let alone a martial weapon shouldn't automatically know how to use a halberd better than anyone else :)
You mean if I go crazy and start hearing things I'll know how to use all martial weapons?
Because a little baby tiefling born to a peasant woman who can't afford a dagger let alone a martial weapon shouldn't automatically know how to use a halberd better than anyone else :)
Tieflings don't have racial hit dice, they advance by character class. So they don't actually get the outsider proficiencies.
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That's...odd. Not disagreeing outright, but does it mention that somewhere in the Bestiary? News to me. :o
Where is the line drawn then? Goblins, Gnolls, Kobolds, and plenty of other races advance by class, so do they not get the abilities of their type? Would an Aberration that advanced by class (for whatever reason) not have darkvision? Would an undead that advanced by class have a Con score and need to eat? :)
It's no crazier than the martial arts movie where a child is born that has the crazy and mystical ability to use all martial arts despite no training.
At least with tieflings we can say that the devil/demon blood in their veins gives them a natural knowledge in the deadly arts. :)
I'm still waiting to hear a good reason for them to have it, if someone says backwards compatibility i'm likely to agree with that person. If you say demon blood I'm going to ask you how many skills you've learned from your ancestor's via bloodline.
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I'm still waiting to hear a good reason for them to have it, if someone says backwards compatibility i'm likely to agree with that person. If you say demon blood I'm going to ask you how many skills you've learned from your ancestor's via bloodline.It's no crazier than the martial arts movie where a child is born that has the crazy and mystical ability to use all martial arts despite no training.
At least with tieflings we can say that the devil/demon blood in their veins gives them a natural knowledge in the deadly arts. :)
Well, none, but I'm a humanoid, I don't really get anything. And I don't think there is anyone descended from a demon around here you can really ask. ;)
I don't think the realism card works when you're talking about devil/demon-spawn here. :)
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There was a controversy where it was stated that Outsiders weren't intended to have proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, and that this was carried over from some version of the write-up that came from a Aasimar or Tiefling that had warrior levels or something.
Ask Wizards shot that theory out of the water.
I'd be prone to go with the original theory, rather than have lemures automatically become proficient with composite longbows, ranseurs, throwing axes and glaive-glaive-guisarme-glaives by dint of becoming mindless outsiders, but hey, I didn't write the rule.
And it's not just demons and devils whispering into tieflings ears how to kill, kill, kill, it's also angels and archons whispering into baby aasimars ears how to wreak bloody havoc with all the tools of mortal dismemberment, for goodness sake.
Yeah, that's right, your water genasi gets free training in how to use weapons that don't work underwater, like a greatclub, if your grandmother was a triton or other aquatic outsider! Neat, huh?
That's...odd. Not disagreeing outright, but does it mention that somewhere in the Bestiary? News to me. :o
Where is the line drawn then? Goblins, Gnolls, Kobolds, and plenty of other races advance by class, so do they not get the abilities of their type? Would an Aberration that advanced by class (for whatever reason) not have darkvision? Would an undead that advanced by class have a Con score and need to eat? :)
Huh. It's actually only specified for Humanoids. (Where it spells out that humanoids without racial hit dice, like humans, goblins, orcs, and elves, don't get the type stuff, while humanoids with racial HD, like Gnolls, Bugbears, and Giants, do.)
I may be mistaken here.
That said, the 'Aasimar as characters' and 'tiefling as characters' sections do mention darkvision, but do not mention weapon proficiencies.
I know this doesn't apply automatically, but Rich Baker stated at one point in time that yes, even Native outsiders gain proficiency in these weapons. Obviously this can be changed by Pathfinderizing things, but that was the last official word I had heard.
That said, the 'Aasimar as characters' and 'tiefling as characters' sections do mention darkvision, but do not mention weapon proficiencies.Maybe adding the 'native' subtype takes away their free simple / martial weapon proficiencies?
Nah. Then Rakshasa and Oni would lose their Outsider proficiencies.
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Maybe adding the 'native' subtype takes away their free simple / martial weapon proficiencies?Nah. Then Rakshasa and Oni would lose their Outsider proficiencies.
Good point. The Oni, in particular, seem pretty likely to have weapon proficiencies. (Although they also seem pretty likely to have class levels in Fighter, Barbarian, Samurai, etc., which grant those proficiencies...)
They went 'round and 'round on this topic back on the CharOps forums, as people were using the Outsider (native) subtype to qualify for all sorts of Prestige Classes (like Eldritch Knight or Spellsword) that required weapon profs as single-class Wizards and stuff. Evidence was dug up from CustServ on both sides of the debate, as usually happens, which just meant it became an endless argument of RAW and RAI.
Maybe adding the 'native' subtype takes away their free simple / martial weapon proficiencies?Nah. Then Rakshasa and Oni would lose their Outsider proficiencies.Good point. The Oni, in particular, seem pretty likely to have weapon proficiencies. (Although they also seem pretty likely to have class levels in Fighter, Barbarian, Samurai, etc., which grant those proficiencies...)
They went 'round and 'round on this topic back on the CharOps forums, as people were using the Outsider (native) subtype to qualify for all sorts of Prestige Classes (like Eldritch Knight or Spellsword) that required weapon profs as single-class Wizards and stuff. Evidence was dug up from CustServ on both sides of the debate, as usually happens, which just meant it became an endless argument of RAW and RAI.
Well, barring Jason showing up to chime in on this topic, the way I'd handle it (at my table) is saying that darkvision and the like comes from race, so you get it with just being the race (i.e. outsider), but proficiencies normally come with class (i.e. hit dice) and therefore you need actual hit dice to get them.