Nationalism and Racial Identity

[Weylin]

This has come up as my group is discussing starting a Golarion campaign.

There is several mentions of nationalist pride in the write-ups for many of the nations in the campaign setting. This makes sense that there would be overall strong nationalist sentiment.

The question is how does this interact with racial identity among the non-humans who live there? Does racial identity tend to take teleportation over nationality or does nationality tend to take teleportationover racial identity?

Does an elf born and rasied identify more as an elf who lives in Qadira or as a Qadiran who happens to be an elf? Does a dwarf who has lived in Andoran for 200 years identify as a dwarf first and an Andoran second (if at all)?

This came up discussing the "nation over race" aspect of the Eberron setting where "Yeah, you're a half-orc and i'm an elf, but at least were both from Breland and that elf over there is from Aundaire so I like him less than I like you."

I am looking for both in general opinions on this and for offical comment from any of the Paizo Staff.

-Weylin

[Wicht]

I would guess that it varies. Nationalism is all about a sense of community and belonging. Demihumans who feel like they belong to a given community will support it. Those who view themselves as outsiders won't.

Elves raised by other elves are going to view themselves as members of the elvish community who are merely spending time amongst the other races. Their longer life might mean they transcend any solid nationalistic tendencies for any of the everchanging human nations. Elves raised among humans might identify themselves strongly with or against the community they know best.

Gnomes and Halflings, I would guess would be more likely to be nationalistic than not.

Dwarves I could see going either way as regards the nations, again depending on how they were raised and how they might relate or not relate to the broader community.

[Tarren Dei]

I would imagine that any one individual could vary in the ways she identifies herself even within a single day. She might think of herself first as an elf when she hears elves insulted and then as an Andoran when she meets a Chelish patriot and then as a woman when she is faced with sexism.

[Weylin]

Wicht wrote:

I would guess that it varies. Nationalism is all about a sense of community and belonging. Demihumans who feel like they belong to a given community will support it. Those who view themselves as outsiders won't.

Elves raised by other elves are going to view themselves as members of the elvish community who are merely spending time amongst the other races. Their longer life might mean they transcend any solid nationalistic tendencies for any of the everchanging human nations. Elves raised among humans might identify themselves strongly with or against the community they know best.

Gnomes and Halflings, I would guess would be more likely to be nationalistic than not.

Dwarves I could see going either way as regards the nations, again depending on how they were raised and how they might relate or not relate to the broader community.

Makes sense to me except on one point: Gnomes.

I doubt Gnomes in Golarion even really grasp the concept of national pride. It mentions they dont even really have a concept of marriage. I can see a Gnome playing with nationalism for a while but getting bored with it fairly quickly.

-Weylin

[Xuttah]

Truescale Kobold National Anthem:

"Let them all go to hell, except cave seventy six!"

[Set]

My opinions;

Elves who came back from the First World recently are going to most likely consider the ruler in Kyonin their queen, regardless of where they happen to be living this year. Elves who stayed behind after Earthfall are much more likely to have integrated, and perhaps even find the recent returnees annoying. ("So nice of you to come running back, now that it's safe. Do make yourself at home...")

Dwarves may similarly regard themselves are subjects of the 'Five Kings' at Highhelm, or, on other cases, may have lived in whatever land they occupy long enough to consider themselves Andorans or Osirioni.

Gnomes would likely have little concern for such matters, and would happily claim allegiance to wherever they hang their hat. They might passionately defend Andoran principles, and then move to Thuvia and be just as passionately patriotic there.

Halflings also have no centralized 'Halfling lands' like Kyonin or, as far as we know, cities or rulers of their own, like the dwarf-king in Highhelm, and are much more integrated into their respective human communities. A Taldan Halfling and a Qadiran Halfling might regard each other in contempt, seeing their nationality as more important than their race.

[Asgetrion]

*ALL* Chelaxians are true patriots, regardless of race! I doubt any other nation can claim the same, which is not really surprising; after all, we *are* the strongest, most powerful empire to EVER exist on Golarion! My eyes fill with tears, as I think how unified we are in our love for the blessed Majestrix, Holy Asmodeus and our glorious country!

[Set]

Asgetrion wrote:

*ALL* Chelaxians are true patriots, regardless of race! I doubt any other nation can claim the same, which is not really surprising; after all, we *are* the strongest, most powerful empire to EVER exist on Golarion! My eyes fill with tears, as I think how unified we are in our love for the blessed Majestrix, Holy Asmodeus and our glorious country!

Yeah, the 'slips' really love the way y'all treat them. :)

[Asgetrion]

Set wrote:

Asgetrion wrote:

*ALL* Chelaxians are true patriots, regardless of race! I doubt any other nation can claim the same, which is not really surprising; after all, we *are* the strongest, most powerful empire to EVER exist on Golarion! My eyes fill with tears, as I think how unified we are in our love for the blessed Majestrix, Holy Asmodeus and our glorious country!

Yeah, the 'slips' really love the way y'all treat them. :)

I will ignore your sarcastic, ignorant remarks; at least we don't worship bugs and dogs and spiders and reptiles and whatnot!

Every Chelaxian I know will, every night before retreating to bed for a good night's sleep, salute our flag and sing our glorious national anthem! And, naturally, whisper fervent, devoted prayers to the Holy Asmodeus who watches over us all, thanking Him for the Guidance of our Beloved Majestrix and the Ultimate Blessing that is to be a citizen of our Empire! Can your petty, bug-infested excuse for an "empire" claim the same? ;P

[Set]

Asgetrion wrote:

And, naturally, whisper fervent, devoted prayers to the Holy Asmodeus who watches over us all, thanking Him for the Guidance of our Beloved Majestrix and the Ultimate Blessing that is to be a citizen of our Empire! Can your petty, bug-infested excuse for an "empire" claim the same? ;P

Certainly not. Our prayers are spoken loudly, with pride, under the light of day to actual gods, not whispered in the night to mere fiends with inflated egos.