Got it!
Two questions:
(1) As of now, Necromancer Games has published only the first of three parts of Greg Vaughn's "Slumbering Tsar," and the published material runs out as soon as you hit Tsar. (Or come out of the north side of the Desolation, if that were your goal...)
Should I begin working on a homebrew version of Tsar, or should we ask Greg to take over the campaign? Or should we close down the PbP until such time as Necromancer decides to develop and release the next part?
Chris, did you decide on what path you are going to take with this, or are you going to suprise us, he he.
Hey, I was just looking into Pathfinder Wildshape & Polymorph spells, and I discovered something:
In the ghoul wolf fight, I remember Mikka gaining the advantage of being un-flankable and immune to paralysis.
As far as I can tell, this isn't allowed in Pathfinder, because although that's a trait that Elementals have from their Elemental type, immunity to Flanking (as well as Paralysis, Poison, Stunning, etc) isn't EVER granted by Elemental Body, and immunity to Crits and Sneak specifically isn't granted until Elemental Body 3/ 10th level Druid Wildshape.
This is the crux of the change to Pathfinder polymorph, where you don't gain ALL special abilities of your chosen form, only ones specifically granted by the spell - just about the only thing you copy directly, independent of the spell, is the #/types of attacks.
BTW, Chris, I wasn't thinking of doing anything about this until we level up,
but I had realized with Durnast's opposed schools that Enchantment really fits more as an opposed school of his than Evocation - I believe he doesn't even have ANY enchantment spells, for instance. I think I had blurred the lines between Illusion(Pattern) and Enchantment when I made that choice earlier... but it seems like having Enchantment as opposed really fits his style/intent better than Evocation.
Like I said before, I really have no experience running Wizards as PCs, and definitely not Specialist Wizards, so I haven't really dealt with all these nuances before.
Thoughts?
I'll be off on holydays from this saturday to the next, without computer or internet access. Please feel free to take over Alia and Swiftpaws.
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Have a great time, Llaelian!
--+--+--
Okay, a note to get your head in the game.
The last two combat encounters have been with two CR 7 threats (the peryton and its swarm/shadow) and with two CR 6 monsters with a handful of CR 2 critters (the ghoul dire wolves and ghoul wolves).
You had problems addressing the threats and delivering your best attacks. From what I can tell, that's because people each had different plans, any of which was reasonable, but which got in one another's ways. (With the ghoul wolves, arrows and some damage spells could probably have killed all the wolves before they got to you, but Durnast's spells gave them cover, and Mikka's charge required other people to advance and support her. But if everybody'd been planning to take the fight to the wolves in the first place, that strategy might have worked just as well.)
I don't have any problems with parties not having "optimal" tactics. After all, this is a role-playing adventure, not a board game. But there's something you should know. This guy is tougher than either of those fights, maybe tougher than both those fights together. And you're starting the combat separated, asleep, and many of you spellcasters at the dregs of your powers.
If you think things through and coordinate your actions, you should succeed here. If not, well, "Slumbering Tsar" is famous for its PC deaths, and you'll be in good company.
I'd recommend using this thread to discuss strategy and tactics.
Well, encouraging words to say the least, he he.
This thing sounds like a powerful spellcaster, so perhaps getting it into melee would be the best way to handle this guy. Although he probably has pretty good melee attacks as well, due to his spider form. And poison, of course...joy.
How feasible would it be to grapple this guy? It would limit his spellcasting, somewhat. Unfortunately I think he is far more mobile than everybody, except maybe Montague. The only way to limit his mobility would be to get him inside the tomb, but at this point he is the only one who has access.
Also would Gurg be willing to help us in this fight? I am not sure he would. If he turns against us, then hello TPK.
Rasina would want to get close to it, despite the poison it has, so she can sneak attack/bleed it. Wonder if there is any called shot available for those lumps, he he.
Don't know how the spellcasters are now, but a summon monster spell would help i think.
Other thoughts, guys?
Montague had hoped to keep this thing distracted until the rest of the party could join in, but that's out the window now. Luckily he thinks there are only two asleep inside, so he's not aware of our true numbers. Unluckily they are all inside a stinking cloud spell.
Montague will probably attempt to leap off the top of the building, and close with this thing on his turn, so feel free to join at any time.
Yeah, besides Durnast (awake) and Cam (asleep),
Alia, Swiftpaws, Artimus, Mikka, and Gurg are all inside the Rope Trick
and have yet to make their Saves to wake up.
Peeking at Richard's spell-list, he has ONE Dispel Magic, which is great!
He could use it to try and remove the Stinking Cloud, but Counter-Spelling is also a good a use of it, not to mention other spells the Aranea might cast. (and other stuff might show up later)
I figure it's possible for Monty to blow a Ki Point to get 70' Move Speed and dash straight North and then into into F-0 with one Move Action from where he can either Grapple the Aranea or just hitting it with Unarmed Strike/Stunning Fist (if it's Undead it's immune to Stun) Either way, Readying until Rasina Flanks for another +2 to-hit seems reasonable. ...It's really a shame about Grapple provoking, but it seems like it might be worthwhile to chance an AoO since your Stunning Fist may not work against it, and if it's not Grappled/Stunned it can just 5' step away NW/SE to Cast...?
It looks like Rasina can Move 30' up to D-2 from where she can Sneak Attack the Aranea (probably that +1 dagger is the best bet, it might have DR/magic) with Monty's Flanking, or even Ready a Sneak Attack if it tries to do anything (if Monty Grapples it, it may well have Quickened/Swift Spells).
If the Stinking Cloud isn't Dispelled, Durnast actually has a plan to get people out and into action: He's probably inclined to Cast Greater Invisibility on Alia, and normal Invisibility on somebody else (Rasina?), but between everybody in the Rope Trick Aiding Another, probably even 2 people/round can leave the Rope Trick and have a very good chance of passing the Stinking Cloud Save. (it also keeps up the pretense there are only 2 more people until more than that come out)
Then again, if Richard CAN Dispel the Stinking Cloud, everybody who wants to get out in one round (Durnast would try to Cast Greater Invis on somebody before they go, probably Alia) can do so... That is probably the best approach, since even Alia alone can Ready an arrow vs. any Casting immediately after jumping out, which is probably equivalent to Richard trying to Counterspell with Dispel Magic. So my vote is: Richard, Dispel that Stink Bomb!
Probably the most useful thing Durnast will be able to do outside the Rope Trick is using his super-charged Diviner's Gift "Aid Another".
...Thoughts?
If awakened Mikka could burn her 3rd level Speak with plants, which is pretty useless right now, to summon an air elemental which can take care of the cloud in it's 1st round and join thefight in the 2nd.
Pretty much all of her 1st level spells can be burned for SNA spells.
Since i didn't get enough sleep the only spells i have lieft is Ventriloquism, Shocking grasp and Cat's grace. i also still have the spell from my bonded ring left.
That will give us some sort of surprise moment when we alle reveal our number and position. That has to count as something..
Or i could grab my mount scroll and dumb a mount on it's head :D
Since i didn't get enough sleep the only spells i have lieft is Ventriloquism, Shocking grasp and Cat's grace. i also still have the spell from my bonded ring left.
That will give us some sort of surprise moment when we alle reveal our number and position. That has to count as something..
Or i could grab my mount scroll and dumb a mount on it's head :D
You are not a frontline fighter, as neither am I. We all have our roles to play, he he. I am sure if we get TPK'd then you can bring in a tank, he he.
Since i didn't get enough sleep the only spells i have lieft is Ventriloquism, Shocking grasp and Cat's grace. i also still have the spell from my bonded ring left.
Or i could grab my mount scroll and dumb a mount on it's head :D
Using that Bonded Item Ring for a Scorching Ray could be a semi-decent "Counterspell" option.
And I might even use that Mount trick myself :-)Yeah, it's kind of rough splitting up your classes like that, ho-hum Sneak Attack and ho-hum Casting. I think Rasina's approach, with 1 level of Sorceror works better, you can use UMD for higher level scrolls if you want.
It's not really a published class yet, but I think Paizo's new Inquisitor seems to be the best approach for a skills-y, fighty-y, magick-y type of character. It's technically divine but they get alot of 'batman' arcane spells on their list, and since you don't HAVE to worship a specific god but can get spells from an 'ideal', who's to say it isn't arcane if you avoid cure spells and focus on the spells normally on arcane lists? I could see Nadeq going that way with trickery or travel domains, or maybe magic domain for dispelling strike...
If awakened Mikka could burn her 3rd level Speak with plants, which is pretty useless right now, to summon an air elemental which can take care of the cloud in it's 1st round and join the fight in the 2nd. Pretty much all of her 1st level spells can be burned for SNA spells.
That's a pretty cool plan, though I don't know how exactly it would work or not... Let's see what everybody thinks, whether to go for this as Plan A, or leave it for Plan B if Richard's Dispel Check doesn't work...
I saw this and thought 'Wait, she wasn't even SENTIENT this entire time...' :-)
Monty (...) can either Grapple the Aranea [EDIT: it looks like he *doesn't have Imp Grapple!*, so this would provoke, increasing the DC if he's hit] or just hitting it with Unarmed Strike/Stunning Fist (if it's Undead it's immune to Stun) Either way, Readying until Rasina Flanks for another +2 to-hit seems reasonable. ...It's really a shame about Grapple provoking, but it seems like it might be worthwhile to chance an AoO since your Stunning Fist may not work against it, and if it's not Grappled/Stunned it can just 5' step away NW/SE to Cast...?
If it works like a Vampire, it's Gaseous Form is Supernatural and thus un-Interruptable, so if it were Grappled it would have no trouble getting out (and into a form we have a hard time dealing with). So mtaybe just hitting it is best?
Bigger picture, our best bet seems to be getting Alia out to Full Attack it, and Artimus in range to Smite/Full Attack it. If it realizes the situation before then, it will probably go gaseous.
Also, if it can Dominate like Vampires, we should keep that in mind re: Gurg - Protection from Evil could be a good idea for him. (and any of us, except I don't think Richard has Circle of Protection from Evil)
If it works like a Vampire, it's Gaseous Form is Supernatural and thus un-Interruptable, so if it were Grappled it would have no trouble getting out (and into a form we have a hard time dealing with). So maybe just hitting it is best?
Durnast's experience with these things wasn't vast, but he's pretty sure the typical aranea can't turn into a vapor.
Rasina has PvE spell, but it is touch only. So she needs to have Gurg next to her, will be difficult if she runs up to it.
OK, from his profile Richard has 2 Protect/Evils (but I think he didn't actually refresh his spells, so those are in Error - what DOES he have?)
I also have a Protect/Evil scroll that I can use Cam to deliver if necessary.
OK, slight meta-gaming but given it was a Know:Arcana check not Know:Religion, I take it this thing isn't an actual Vampire or Undead, and Richard's Channels shouldn't damage it, right?
...It looks like Artimus and Swift Paws will be acting before the Aranea next round.
If the Cloud is Dispelled (or others can Aid them to pass the Stinking Cloud Save) we will once again be able to see the Aranea (and Rasina/Monty if they move to Flank it) from the Rope Trick.
Artimus and SP can run out and cut off the other exits of the Aranea so it can't 5' Step out of threat area (if it wasn't Grappled or Tripped), getting in an attack while they're at it. The Aranea could jump away (if it wasn't Grappled or Tripped) but everybody would get AoO's. ...?
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OK, slight meta-gaming but given it was a Know:Arcana check not Know:Religion, I take it this thing isn't an actual Vampire or Undead, and Richard's Channels shouldn't damage it, right?
Not necessarily. Knowledge(Arcana) identified it as an aranea, but I would have asked for that whether it had class levels or a less-than-obvious undead nature.
If you want to make a Knowledge(religion) check, you might be able to tell if it's undead. (Likewise, a Knowledge(nobility) to check if it's a recognizable noble aranea...)
I'll just do it here:
Know(Nobility):
Know(Religion):
No nobility that you recognize.
It would appear that the creature's default language is Infernal. That marks it as aligned to the Lawful Lower Planes. Most undead, and particularly most of the undead in the Desolation, would be under the influence of Orcus, and therefore chaotic. Besides which, it neither recoiled from Richard, an obvious cleric of heaven, nor chose to attack him in preference to the rope trick.
Given those two facts, you think it unlikely that the creature is undead.
OK, I see now I somehow got the idea you said it was Vampire-like, probably confusing how you said they were lycanthrope-like. So it's not Undead, and probably EITHER Grappling OR Stunning would be effective against it.
With that in mind...
I guess that IF the Stinking Cloud isn't dispelled by the time it's his turn, Durnast would Delay if Mikka can Summon an Air Elemental to do the job (leaving space for us to get out and move towards the creature).
If it works, he could then cast Greater Invis on Alia, who (after the Aranea acts - hopefully Grappled/Stunned by Monty) could jump out and either take a shot directly or Ready an attack to 'Counter-Spell' (Great Invis isn't even necessary, really, I might as well save it). If the cloud is gone (nothing stopping us from coming out), Gurg could go South of the fracas and still hit the Aranea with his Reach... Perhaps Cam would follow to Aid Another to Gurg's Saves? (or just try and Sleep Sting the Arachnea)
If both attempts to get rid of Stinking Cloud DON'T work... We probably should get SOMEBODY out there ANYWAYS... Let's say Artimus and Gurg with most of the Aid Another:Saves help going Gurg's way, both of them blocking off avenues for the Aranea to 5' step away?
What do we think?
Hey, Quandary, it's amazing how I can miss text in big bold letters, but you did indeed ask that Chamomile should be flying around outside during the dark watches. My abject and inexplicable apologies. So, let's have him patrolling down below the lip of the mesa border for a few minutes. He can come in from any direction you please, if you like.
But he's out of contact with you, being on another plane of existence and all.
Yeah, I was kind of wondering about that :-)
(I probably should have just re-posted when your next post overlooked that, but I figured bolding it would work)
I think at this point saying that Cam 'neglected his duties' in favor of snoozing back in the Rope Trick is the easiest solution rather than retro-actively figure out what he did when the Aranea was spouting Abyssal challenges. And it kind of adds character that he would occasionally be lazy like this :-)
There might be an opportunity very soon to tweak the character, if you please. Is it just spell selection, or something more fundamental?
I just think it's a bad level we are at.
I have never played a multi class character before, and did not realize the disadvantages you run into if you multiclass to fast. I don't see him as a fighter type at all, i envisioned him more as a trouble shooter so i'm fine with not being great in combat but at this point he is just bad :) As we hit level 8 i plan on taking a level of rogue to get a rogue talent i can spend on combat trick to get rapid shot. That will give me +1 bab and double his damage potential. Then he will be able to do what i intended and still be able to hold his own in combat.now we just need to get inside that tomb and then he'll shine.
There might be an opportunity very soon to tweak the character, if you please. Is it just spell selection, or something more fundamental?I just think it's a bad level we are at.
I have never played a multi class character before, and did not realize the disadvantages you run into if you multiclass to fast. I don't see him as a fighter type at all, i envisioned him more as a trouble shooter so i'm fine with not being great in combat but at this point he is just bad :) As we hit level 8 i plan on taking a level of rogue to get a rogue talent i can spend on combat trick to get rapid shot. That will give me +1 bab and double his damage potential. Then he will be able to do what i intended and still be able to hold his own in combat.now we just need to get inside that tomb and then he'll shine.
Yeah, also remember back when we first started, we had just left the Tomb of Abythsor, Chris said that we had sacrifice some levels to destroy the Black Monolith as well. That is why Rasina is currently built the way she is.
OK, if everybody can go over the general situation and how they see the group acting as a team, as well as how their own character could specifically contribute, I think that's the best use of this time, so we can get going quickly once everyone has checked in. If anybody has trouble following along, I can try to re-phrase what we know and our different options, perhaps structured in Initiative order.
OK, if everybody can go over the general situation and how they see the group acting as a team, as well as how their own character could specifically contribute, I think that's the best use of this time, so we can get going quickly once everyone has checked in. If anybody has trouble following along, I can try to re-phrase what we know and our different options, perhaps structured in Initiative order.
Rasina has 2 options available, 1) use PvE on the party members, or 2) move to engage the araena, hoping for Sneak attack. I have no problem doing either one. What say you?
OK, it looks like we still got a stinking cloud blocking the view...
If the Air Elemental thing will work (I guess it will spin around moving over the entire cloud area?) that's great, but I think we should get somebody out before then: Mikka is low in Init and SNA is a 1 round spell anyways, meaning the Aranea will get 2 more turns before the Air Elemental actually does it's thing, while we are sitting in here doing nothing. That's why I was hoping Richard could use a Standard Action Dispel, but I think he may have blown that spell for healing instead of using Channel healing earlier.
Artimus (and Durnast) have the chance to act before the Aranea's next turn, so might as well get another body out to pin in the Aranea... Durnast can tell Artimus to hold on a sec until he can be 'blessed' by Durnast's Diviner's Fortune giving him +3 to Saves, Attacks, Skills, etc for 1 round (giving him Fort Save +15) which hopefully gets him thru the Stinking Cloud, say to D-0 or E-0 (since he's not in his heavy armor) where he can Smite it as well. Maybe even Swiftpaws can help out and give Artimus a lick for another Aid Another :-).
Since we were supposedly all discussing how to be especially effective in this combat, I'm pretty sure Monty can blow a Ki point to Move in range and still have a Standard Action for Stunning Fist/Grapple from F-0/1/2, or at least provide Flanking for Rasina's Sneak Attack from F-0, if not both. If you can attack from F-0, it's best to Ready so as to benefit from Rasina's Flanking for your own attack/grapple. Allowing Rasina to Sneak Attack with a Flank seems the best way for her to be effective, but either Stunning or Grappling the Aranea seems the best approach here rather than give it another round or 2 of uncontested spellcasting. Doubly so given Chris' warning.
Durnast can also draw his Scroll of Protecion from Evil and hand it to Nadeq, who can cast it on Gurg (with a Spellcraft check). Maybe we can have Gurg Delay a second for Alia and Camomile to Aid Another to Saves, and then tell him to go out and make sure to cover any open flanks on the Aranea with an eye to not let it escape or Cast any "devil-magic".
Whatcha think?
So last chance here, cast PvE spell, or attack when flanking? I decided to go with spell, because I feel better defense is important at this point. I am concerned I may not get a better chance to sneak attack it, though.
Next up:
14 - Nadeq --
13 - Gurg --
10 - Mikka --
9 - Alia --
6 - Richard -- in E2
5 - Chamomile --
Found the song it's The Least of My Kind
Lyrics and melody ©1994 by Catherine Faber
Have you ever heard them, Chris ? If so are they any good ?
Oh, and good news. Slumbering Tsar volume 2 and 3, already converted to PF RPG, will be released by Necromancer Games. So, when you get to the City of Temples, there will be something there!
Sweet! When will it be released? Ummm, not that I would buy it to read beforehand mind you...he he
"When will it be released?" is not a good question to ever ask Necromancer Games. Right now, there isn't a clear answer as to "how it will be released." Probably broken apart into chapters and sold as a subscription, like Paizo's Adventure Paths.
I've followed that what I've understood is that it will only be produced if enough people preorder it. I've seen that done a lot in France with small editors.
"When will it be released?" is not a good question to ever ask Necromancer Games. Right now, there isn't a clear answer as to "how it will be released." Probably broken apart into chapters and sold as a subscription, like Paizo's Adventure Paths.I've followed that what I've understood is that it will only be produced if enough people preorder it. I've seen that done a lot in France with small editors.
This product sounds cool, i would consider buying a subscription for this, and I would not read the chapters (scouts honor), he he.
This Is why a druid is one of the most terrifying classes in existance. There needs to be a volcano spell in core.
I agree, Mark, or at least some sort of long-term ritual...
--+--+--
Regarding splitting the party:
I don't have a horse in this race: I'll be happy to run you however you want. Having said that, it is indeed reasonable for the party members to believe that there are two time-crucial goals: finding Montegue's party, and finding Veren's companions.
Rasina's hypotetical division of the party is insightful: a Monk, Paladin, Wizard, and Arcane Trickster is a well-rounded group, and so is a Druid, Ranger, Fighter, and Sorcerer/Rogue. (Although I note without comment that Rasina's arrangement places all the women with Veren...) The Monk and Fighter are going after their goals, the group tracking through the Ashen Wastes has the Ranger, ...
And, of course, a group of four PCs is not going to run into the same level of threats as a group of eight. The Desolation remains deadly, but spliting the PCs doesn't make it impossible to survive.
Again, I'm not saying you should. I'm saying you can. We would calve off another, temporary, thread, if you decide you want to do that. But in a smaller group, it's more important to post regularly. If only six out of eight people are contributing, a party still moves along; if only two out of four people are active, it's more of a drag.
If you do decide to stick together, either Montegue or Veren will have to give on the urgency of his quest. If you do decide to split up, I'd recommend setting an easy to find rendesvous time and place. (Maybe back with Richard?)
--+--+--
If Durnast is hesitant about dividing your strength --a reasonable position-- it would strike me as unwise to send Chamomile alone on a several-mile trek. A bone storm or a pair of wraiths or an elven sorcerer might mean his doom.
In any case, you know what spells Richard prepaed this morning. He's not a big one on divinations, being more the holy smite and dismissal kind of priest. He could, of course, pray for diffeent spells on the morrow.
Rasina has adventured with Richard before and she would know what kind of spells he would memorize, she would say the same thing that you do Chris
Ironic but logical. And yeah the intuitive split definitely made sense.
Right now Mikka is unlikely to be willing to abandon anyone to die in the Desolation, it's almost as if she has a personal war going on with the region.
As she sees it a caravan with guards etc, has a better chance of surviving that a lone woma who is probably wounded. As such she considers Veren's companion(s) to be a priority.
ok, durnast/me had been under the impression richard had prepped an augury to ID items... maybe that never happened because I used identify...?
i would think Cam could fly at high enough altitudes to avoid being spotted, and in any case, avoid problems from the ground, and I don't know how long we took from the mesa to here, but going max speed at altitude it seems like ~15-20min for Cam to fly each way...? Anyway, if we KNOW that Richard didn't prep Augury, there is no point in that.
from gurg's report, it sounded more like his whole expedition had been attacked and wiped out (by undead hordes, no less*), so Durnast would think it more likely a single survivor (Veren's companion) could have found shelter from the storm (like we did) than others escaped a purposeful massacre.
That said, we could possibly convince Veren his last companion is dead, such as by mentioning how they seemed to have murdered each other, suggesting magical compulsion (assuming they were honorable mates to begin with) by a magic-using foe who would have finished off all of them, i.e. not simply a matter of the dust storm Veren knew about...?
but I think durnast could go along with any plan as long as it seems on the road to re-gathering the expedition. if we want to go look for Veren's lost companion, it makes more sense in the context of returning to check out the cracked dome (with info possibly relevant to tsar), since they're in the same area (and thus we couldn't say it's too much out of the way to look for her). looking for the caravan (and king kroma) seems justifiable on it's own as a step towards tsar, and Veren could be convinced to come along if he thinks his last companion is a lost cause.
* we haven't really discussed how this suggests Clantock's Orcs and/or the Usurer are aware of/working with King Kroma
FYI, rasina already mentioned there was another survivor to Veren, and she would take a dim view to any deception perpetrated by the group towards Veren
i wasn't mentioning that in the context of deception, given what we can guess about that encounter, that seems a reasonable appraisal from durnast's perspective. the fact one person left the scene doesn't mean they ultimately survived, esp. against a spell-caster, it just suggests they tried to escape. we didn't follow the tracks any distance to know if they made it. in durnast's expectation, both groups are already dead, we were expecting to help bury the remains of the caravan, we were going originally to learn of what attacked them and now with more specific interest in this king kroma.
anyhow, that's only one option. durnast probably sees about equally small chance of survivors in both groups, and is mostly just intent on following thru with the expedition.
if alia is going to the caravan massacre site, durnast will go as well.
we don't know much beyond the general area they were headed to, but between Cam and Alia and Swiftpaws' tracking we may be able to find the site without too much difficulty. If we have trouble, perhaps Montague would know some items the Caravan had carried/worn, and Durnast can prepare Locate Item the next day if necessary.
I'm afraid I'm going to go the opposite way. From Alia point of view, splitting is the worst solution.
First, the last time it happened, two of the group were killed.
Second, the four original members have accepted a rescue mission and whatever Gurg said, he could not even remember what happened to him. So for Alia, this mission is the first to be fulfilled.
Third, they have just encountered a drunk man prisoner of a cage and she does not trust him for the moment.
Fourth, she wants to finish Gurg "mission" as she felt a bond with the giant. She knows what it means to loose all her family and to be outcast.
Fifth, it's against her wolf instincts to split up as wolves find security in numbers.
So if the split happens, Alia will grumble a lot but will go forwards to find the caravan because it's what she promised to do and because she thinks much more likely for some of it to have survived than for the lone lady.