Something seemed seriously off to me when I thought about this last night so and I came up with an absurdly low number for it so I open this up to the boards wisdom:
What would the cost of a quarterstaff that could cast shilleagh (CL 1) on itself 5 times a day be?
And would the enchantment affect both ends for 2 wpn fighting?
Something seemed seriously off to me when I thought about this last night so and I came up with an absurdly low number for it so I open this up to the boards wisdom:
What would the cost of a quarterstaff that could cast shilleagh (CL 1) on itself 5 times a day be?
And would the enchantment affect both ends for 2 wpn fighting?
I don't think the pathfinder core book put in rules for custom items, but if you take a look at item creation on the d20srd there are rules for x/uses per day items. I believe shillelagh enhances the entire staff, but that could be open to interpretation.
I don't think the pathfinder core book put in rules for custom items, but if you take a look at item creation on the d20srd there are rules for x/uses per day items.
Actually it does, but I'm thinking I must be making some sort of mistake in my calculations.
Something seemed seriously off to me when I thought about this last night so and I came up with an absurdly low number for it so I open this up to the boards wisdom:
What would the cost of a quarterstaff that could cast shilleagh (CL 1) on itself 5 times a day be?
And would the enchantment affect both ends for 2 wpn fighting?
The Numbers are off cause what you are doing would break the normal rules for doing it. Normally a +1/+1 Quarterstaff would cost you 4 grand (You have to create a magic weapon for each end). The Shilleagh Spell says the staff gets Both Ends.
Command Word (or by command) Spell Level x Caster Level x 1,800
1x1x1800
Charges per day: 5/5 = 1
1800 / 1 = 1800 + the cost to MW (300g)
1800 gp is base price, costs 900g to create. Shilleagh is a way to break the rules for a +1/+1 Staff. For 200g more (100g more to create) you can make it continuos instead of charged ;)
Congratz on finding a work-around. Your DM might just tell you ya have to Create a +1/+1 for 4 grand
*Note: Hope there is no rules on the forus for posting the math, etc. Couldnt find any rules about it lol.
Actually it does, but I'm thinking I must be making some sort of mistake in my calculations.
I don't think the pathfinder core book put in rules for custom items, but if you take a look at item creation on the d20srd there are rules for x/uses per day items.
What page are those rules on?
From d20SRD
Command word Spell level × caster level × 1,800 gp
Charges per day Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)
Level 1 spell * level 1 caster * 1,800 GP (5/5) charges per day = 1,800 plus price of stick.
or you could go continuous use
Use-activated or continuous Spell level1 × caster level × 2,000 gp3
3.If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.
so level 1 spell * level 1 caster * 2000 * 2(duration expressed in minutes) and have a constant effect shillelagh for 4000 GP. Fair trade for a +1 2d6 weapon. albeit 20/x2 crit
Quarterstaff of the Shillelagh
The quarterstaff is a weapon (most staves are not), so you have to Masterwork it to enchant it (IMHO), so that's 600gp for the Quarterstaff (Note that you have to masterwork both ends of it per the rules).
The spell is a level 1 spell, caster level would be 3rd at least (earliest you can craft a Wonderous Item). So, cost is 2,000gp * 1 (Spell Level) * 3 (Caster Level) = 6,000gp.
The fact that it is 5 times per day means you divide 6,000gp by (5 / number of charges per day) which is 6000 / (5/5) or 6000 / 1 which is, of course, 6000gp.
This item would cost 6600gp.
I'm just gonna use the 3.5 'rules' for this one.
Lessee. Shillelagh. First level spell, CL 1, 1 min/level. It does explicitly grant its benefits to both ends of the quarterstaff.
A continuous effect costs 2000*spell level*caster level. Five uses per day applies no reduction in cost, though it means you don't have to pay double the price.
Base cost of the quarterstaff is nil, so the total cost is 2000g. For 4000g, you could make the effect continuous, rather than uses per day. So, for just under the price of a +1/+1 quarterstaff, you could get a +1 quarterstaff that deals 2d6 base damage (assuming medium size).
Considering quarterstaffs tend to suck to begin with, and dire weapons are hardly ever worth it since you can't use Weapon Finesse with them, this comparatively cheap boost isn't really a problem.
Also, mind that the custom magic item 'rules' aren't actually rules, but general guidelines. There are some items that would be extremely and obviously hideously underpriced using those rules, like an infinite use bauble of Cure Minor Wounds, so when applying them, always to so with care and get approval from your DM.
The spell is a level 1 spell, caster level would be 3rd at least (earliest you can craft a Wonderous Item). So, cost is 2,000gp * 1 (Spell Level) * 3 (Caster Level) = 6,000gp.
You are allowed to deflate your caster level in crafting.
mdt wrote:
The spell is a level 1 spell, caster level would be 3rd at least (earliest you can craft a Wonderous Item). So, cost is 2,000gp * 1 (Spell Level) * 3 (Caster Level) = 6,000gp.
You are allowed to deflate your caster level in crafting.
I'm not seeing that anywhere. I know you can increase your caster level (to increase the duration), but I don't see anywhere where you can decrease it.
I'm not seeing that anywhere. I know you can increase your caster level (to increase the duration), but I don't see anywhere where you can decrease it.mdt wrote:
The spell is a level 1 spell, caster level would be 3rd at least (earliest you can craft a Wonderous Item). So, cost is 2,000gp * 1 (Spell Level) * 3 (Caster Level) = 6,000gp.
You are allowed to deflate your caster level in crafting.
Items are always made at the lowest caster level able to use the spell unless specifically made otherwise. 20th level wizard makes a wand of fireballs it's caster level is 5(earliest a wiz gets fireball) unless he purposely raises the caster level. Shillelagh is a level 1 druid spell
The item doesnt need to be masterworked Cause its a Wounderous Item. And you can always make items Lower caster level. Its listed on page 549 of the PF Core book (3rd paragraph under magic item creation that starts on page 548).
Ah I was missing the 5/5 part of it.
(I originally came up with 400gp and knew something was seriously off.)
Thanks for the input all.
Still thinking that 2k gp for it is low since it's essentially a +1/+1 double great club... How would you value it from a reasonable perspective?
I'm thinking 4600gp base, but that doesn't take into account the wpn size effect.
There's also the possibility that rather than enchanting the weapon itself it could be in something else like gloves or an amulet. (Druidic gloves of bashing?)
Also I was thinking about this from two perspectives:
1. As a half orc ranger PC with 2 wpn fighting.
2. For some angry pixies in a monstrous campaign I've been thinking about for a long time.
Something seemed seriously off to me when I thought about this last night so and I came up with an absurdly low number for it so I open this up to the boards wisdom:
You're creating a new wondrous item. This reads in the PRD about wondrous item creation.
Wondrous item costs are difficult to determine. Refer to Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values and use the item prices in the item descriptions as a guideline. Creating an item costs half the market value listed.
A classic example about broken wondrous items would be a vest of mage armor (continous). It provides a bit better armor than bracers of armor +4, which cost 16k. Still the magic item creation cost guidelines would give the vest a cost of 2k. IIRC, 3.5 FAQ mentioned the same example, and said that the wondrous item cost should be raised to match an existing similar item.
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Something seemed seriously off to me when I thought about this last night so and I came up with an absurdly low number for it so I open this up to the boards wisdom:
What would the cost of a quarterstaff that could cast shilleagh (CL 1) on itself 5 times a day be?
And would the enchantment affect both ends for 2 wpn fighting?
First, you skipped item creation rules #1 (price like similar, in this case +X items) and #2 (price like dissimilar items of similar power)
Shillelagh can't be put on a weapon without making it a +X bonus.
Also of note, 5/day = unlimited
+1 = +1 enhancement (pay both ends)
+1 = +1d6 Medium to 2d6 difference (pay both ends)
This means +1 (enhancement) + 1 (+1d6 Medium) = +2 (8,000 gp) each end.
Tack on the 600 gp for Masterwork and an adhoc value for the "it is better if used on a Large creature" say based on the spell halved (2000 continuous * 1 CL * 1 SL / 2) of 1000 gp
8,000+8,000+600+1000 = 17,600 gp
A DM confident of his ability to apply item creation rules could build say a 2/day item and he might price it (adhoc) around 9,000 gp.
Still thinking that 2k gp for it is low since it's essentially a +1/+1 double great club... How would you value it from a reasonable perspective?
I'm thinking 4600gp base, but that doesn't take into account the wpn size effect.
You're also not taking into account that the thing takes an action to activate and only works for a minute at a time, with a maximum of five minutes of use per day. That's one hefty constraint.
Also, you're comparing it to other dire weapons under the assumption that other dire weapons are any good, but the way dual-wielding works, it's hardly ever worthwhile, since you need a huge Dex score at the expense of strength to qualify for dual-wield feats (or be a Ranger, who needs high Dex anyways).
Put the quarterstaff next to a +1 greatsword, the quarterstaff does pretty much the exact same thing by default, but only for five minutes a day, with an action to activate it. Using both ends for dual-wielding action doesn't really give you much of an advantage over using it two-handed. Inflating the price (as is the default for most double weapons) is completely unnecessary.
Something seemed seriously off to me when I thought about this last night so and I came up with an absurdly low number for it so I open this up to the boards wisdom:
What would the cost of a quarterstaff that could cast shilleagh (CL 1) on itself 5 times a day be?
And would the enchantment affect both ends for 2 wpn fighting?
First, you skipped item creation rules #1 (price like similar, in this case +X items) and #2 (price like dissimilar items of similar power)
Shillelagh can't be put on a weapon without making it a +X bonus.
Also of note, 5/day = unlimited
+1 = +1 enhancement (pay both ends)
+1 = +1d6 Medium to 2d6 difference (pay both ends)This means +1 (enhancement) + 1 (+1d6 Medium) = +2 (8,000 gp) each end.
Tack on the 600 gp for Masterwork and an adhoc value for the "it is better if used on a Large creature" say based on the spell halved (2000 continuous * 1 CL * 1 SL / 2) of 1000 gp8,000+8,000+600+1000 = 17,600 gp
A DM confident of his ability to apply item creation rules could build say a 2/day item and he might price it (adhoc) around 9,000 gp.
What James is trying to say is instead of making a staff that works with your class abilities, make a good luck feather of shillelagh with 5 uses a day and then if your stick gets sundered you can pick up a new one.
I would never charge 17,600 for that item, because it can never get enhanced. It is a spell effect so he can't make it a +2 later or flaming. If he did want to enchant it as a weapon the +1 from shillelagh wouldn't stack with the +1 to craft magical arms and armor. That is assuming of course that the staff in question was masterwork and can be enchanted as a magic weapon.
Not to mention by the time you can craft wonderous items druids have a new toy flame blade that is typically better.
8,000+8,000+600+1000 = 17,600 gpA DM confident of his ability to apply item creation rules could build say a 2/day item and he might price it (adhoc) around 9,000 gp.
Actually,
If you want to go at it in this manner... The most 'alike' way would be a +1/+1 Sizing Quarterstaff. That would be 600gp for the dual masterwork, 4000gp for the +1/+1, and 5000gp for the Sizing. That would be 9,600gp for the whole weapon, all the time.Which honestly is really not in the spirit of what is being requested. What's being requested is a quarterstaff that happens to also double as a wonderous item. Like an Eternal wand with a limitation on what it can affect (itself).
Using that 'similar' reasoning, I'd go with 1,000gp (810 for Eternal Wand level 1, adjust up for divine spell instead of arcane, then adjust down for 'self only') and it would have 3 uses/day instead of five. In this case, the wand is a 6 foot quarterstaff. I'd still go with a +600gp to masterwork the weapon, but that's just me.
EDIT: Twice per day use, not 3 times. Typo.
You can choose what caster level you want to create an item at.
A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell.
You can choose what caster level you want to create an item at.
A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell.
Ah, ok, missed that. Thanks.
Honestly, I'd make it a garland of ivy that you could wear wherever you wanted: Wear it as a crown, wear it as a necklace, use it for a sash, any slot you have free and it lets you cast the spell 5 times per day. You can also wrap it around your staff.
Magically evergreen ivy is a cool druidic thing and fits a lot better than most of the absurdly gaudy jewelry you find.