A creature that possesses class levels, but does not have any racial Hit Dice, is factored in as a creature with a CR equal to its class levels –1. A creature that only possesses non-player class levels (such as a warrior or adept) is factored in as a creature with a CR equal to its class levels –2. If this reduction would reduce a creature's CR to below 1, its CR drops one step on the following progression for each step below 1 this reduction would make: 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/6, 1/8.
According to the above rule i have the folowing questions.
1) What if you have a NPC that combines pc class lvls and npc class lvls?
For example a Human fighter 1 and warrior 4. Should i subtrack 2 for his npc class lvls AND 1 for his pc class lvls OR i have to chose one for them? And which one is the right one?
In that example the NPC would be CR 4.
A creature that
possesses class levels, but does not have any racial Hit
Dice, is factored in as a creature with a CR equal to its class
levels –1. A creature that only possesses non-player class
levels (such as a warrior or adept—see page 448) is factored
in as a creature with a CR equal to its class levels –2.
You should only substract 1 from the creatures level if it has at least one PC class level.
2) Should i give treasure to my NPCs according to their level or CR? There is a table for this job for Basic lvls (NPC classes) and for Heroic levels (PC classes) but i cant find a rule when i want to combine basic and heroic lvls. I only use my judjment and a house rule.
[editted for typo].
The NPC should have gear according to table 14-9 on p. 454
1) I see. That "only" should be in bold in the book as well :)
And you tell me that even from a fighter1 warrior19 i should substrack only 1 lvl!
That is correct. As soon as a NPC has at least one PC class level he gets elite stats rather than standard stats (see p. 451). That in itself increases the CR by 1.
2) The table 14-9 on p.459 is the one that i described. But it doesnt combine basic and heroic levels.
For example:
A War3 has 780g
A Ftr3 has 1650g
True.
What about a war2/ftr1? It shouldnt be right just to add the treasure of the 2 first basic lvls and the first heroic lvl to create the treasure of this NPC!
No. That character would get treasure/gear as a 3rd lvl heroic character (i.e. 1650 gp).
And btw, there is a rule that says
You can significantly increase or decrease the power level of an NPC with class levels by adjusting the NPC's gear. A classed NPC encountered with no gear should have his CR reduced by 1 (provided that loss of gear actually hampers the NPC), while a classed NPC that instead has gear equivalent to that of a PC (as listed on Table: Character Wealth by Level) has a CR of 1 higher than his actual CR.That rule is only for NPCs with pc class lvls and for npc class lvls aswell?
I have not found the rule you are refering to, but if you have quoted the rules correctly I would also apply the same rule to PCs.
I party of PCs with only mundane/rudimentary equipment are at a severe disadvantage and I would treat them as 1 APL lower than normal.For example. I have an NPC Ftr1/War3 and his only gear is a masterwork weapon and a hide armor (not masterwork). Can i substrack 1 from his CR?
Assuming the quoted rule is correct, no. The character does not have no gear. Could you give me a page reference?
There is no rule to indicate exactly how much treasure someone should have to increase or decrease his treasure. Right? Or he should have exactly NO GEAR? Naked!
[Editted for more info].
I do not believe there is a hard and fast rule. If the character in question has less than a character of his level-1 or 2 has, I would consider enforcing the rule. But it really depends on the equipment. If the equipment the character has constitutes less than 33% normal, but is supremely suited for the characters role I yould not modify the CR. On the other hand even if a character has more equipment than corresponds to its level I would decrease the CR by one if the equipment was useless.
E.g. imagine a 3rd lvl wizard who's only real equipment is a +1 dagger. The dagger alone far exceeds his treasure level. At the same time he might be a terrible melee fighter, to shuch a degree that a +1 dagger really cannot ofset his lack of skill and strength. That character would have been far better served with a wide selection of scrolls, for instance, and should therefore have his CR reduced by 1.
E.g. imagine a 3rd lvl fighter who's sole eqipment are a suit of scalemail, a heavy shield and a masterwork bastardsword. His eguipment is about half of his normal alotment, but it complements him very well and the CR should therefore not be changed.
[EDITED]
Thank you for the answers. According to what you wrote i have a few more things to add.
First of all here is the link to the rule conserning the treasure and CR from Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document in the paragraph NPC Gear Adjustments:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gamemastering.html
The rule talks about NPCs with class lvls. From what i can understand from the whole chapter, class lvls = heroic lvls. In that case what about NPCs with basic lvls?
The rules aply to characters with only basic class levels as well. The principåle here is NPCs with levels as opposed with purely HD based creatures. The classed NPC expression is used since HDs are often used synonimously with levels.
In short the rules aply to warriors as well as fighters, albeit a fighter of equal level to a warrior will get more gear.Second. You say that for an orc Ftr1/war2, i should give him treasure as a 3rd lvl heroic. Thats 1650g. But if i give him only a masterwork axe and and a simple hide thats only 400g. In that case wouldnt be better to substrack 1 CR? The rest of the treasure could be a masterwork bow, a pot of haste and 1-2 pots of cure spells that could make the orc a harder opponent...
No, you should not reduce the CR. A Mwk axe is still very useful to that particular character. The additional equipment you suggest sounds reasonable
And third, i want to return to the rule conserning the CRs. You say that an orc Ftr1/war9 is the same CR (9) as an orc ftr10 just because he possesses a single heroic lvl! But thats doesnt seem right to me for obvious reasons. Dont you think it should be a (maybe new) rule to combine basic and heroic lvls? Or maybe if there are more basic that heroic lvls we should substrack 2 CR and not only one?
Otherwise there is no reason to give NPCs many basic lvls if we plan to also give them a few or even just one heroic lvl. The only reason to do this is just for roleplaying but the difficulty of the battle would be well suited for that CR...
The character build you suggest is very untraditional. such a character would normally have better balance among the levels or even an inverted balance. However, the combination is posible and the give example might be more comparable with a lvl 10 warrior than a lvl 10 fighter.
I would not introduce a general houserule in order to deal with one (rare) example. In this case I would probably make an ad-hoc ruling towards CR9 as you suggest.Remember that as a GM you have to make "rulings" to deal with all the exceptions - it is to my mind better- than to make "rules" to deal with them.