Yep... -1 to attack with a two-handed weapon (including a bow) or an off-hand weapon, always, period, no matter what. Stacks with non-proficiency ACP, if relevant. Would apply to touch spells delivered with that hand, even. [b]And[/i] you lose the AC bonus for making any such attack.
Still worth having the option in many cases. :)
Yep... -1 to attack with a two-handed weapon (including a bow) or an off-hand weapon, always, period, no matter what. Stacks with non-proficiency ACP, if relevant. Would apply to touch spells delivered with that hand, even. [b]And[/i] you lose the AC bonus for making any such attack.
Still worth having the option in many cases. :)
I believe that the text is quite clear. It states that you can use a bow or crossbow without penalty. The next phrase states that if you use a weapon in your off hand or a two-handed weapon you take a -1 penalty.
I believe that the way the phrases were put together indicates that the -1 penalty only applies to melee weapons and not to bows or crossbows.
I agree with mistwalker, specific exceptions preclude general statements.
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To me, the best use comes from having a one-handed weapon that you could, when it's advantageous, grab with both hands for a bit of extra damage. It makes for good flavor in combat.
My wife (new to PF, but has played D&D 4th ed before) is playing a Dwarf barbarian and this is what she does. Most of the time, the buckler is a nice +1 AC, but when she's get a good flank, the enemy is distracted by something, or she really needs to finish them off....rage, power attack, and two handed grip for a pretty significant boost in her damage.
Edit: It's worth mentioning that her good friend The Wizard is a diviner and True Strike happy when he see's her going for the kill.
It states that you can use a bow or crossbow without penalty.
Entirely correct... my bad on that one. Now I'm a little uncertain whether you keep the AC if you attack with a bow, though... is it no penalties to using the bow or when using the bow?
Now I'm a little uncertain whether you keep the AC if you attack with a bow, though... is it no penalties to using the bow or when using the bow?
I've always played it as no penalty includes the ability to use the AC of the buckler even while firing a bow or crossbow. So, when using a bow or crossbow.
It says "In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn."
When you use a bow or crossbow you use both hands, so you use your off hand, and so you lose the AC bonus.
It says "In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn."
When you use a bow or crossbow you use both hands, so you use your off hand, and so you lose the AC bonus.
Again the bow states a specific exception, just like feats give a specific exception.
Or are exceptions not exceptions anymore?
Again the bow states a specific exception, just like feats give a specific exception.
Or are exceptions not exceptions anymore?
Nope, the exception only says that you can use crossbows or bows without the -1 penalty.
and the text concludes with what I have quoted "in any case..."Also it says exactly
You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it.
It doesn't says when using it.
I see that interpretation differences has reared it's head again. :)
As the writers were careful to mention bows in the first part of the paragraph and mentioned casting spells in the later part, it is my interpretation that bow and crossbow users keep the AC benefit of bucklers.
"In any case" refers to two-weapon fighting and two-handed melee weapon fighting.
I see that interpretation differences has reared it's head again. :)
As the writers were careful to mention bows in the first part of the paragraph and mentioned casting spells in the later part, it is my interpretation that bow and crossbow users keep the AC benefit of bucklers.
"In any case" refers to two-weapon fighting and two-handed melee weapon fighting.
Well the text doesn't say that you don't lose the buckler AC bonus when using a bow. It just says that you don't have a penalty to use it when carrying a buckler.
Losing the AC bonus of your buckler is not the same as having a penalty to use it.The penalty is the -1 to attack.
I can see that the designers wanted to keep a character from gaining the AC bonus when using the arm carrying the buckler for anything else. What's the difference between fighting with two-weapons or two-handed weapon and fighting with a bow ? I don't see any realistic and logical reason to allow this only for bows and crossbows.
Edit: It's worth mentioning that her good friend The Wizard is a diviner and True Strike happy when he see's her going for the kill.
Note that in Pathfinder Final, page 363, True Strike has a range of "Personal". According to page 213, "Personal: The spell affects only you." Unfortunately, this means no more casting True Strike on my archer buddy. Bummer.
My low-level duskblade uses a buckler so that hand can be used for somatic/material components at need, as well as swing his longsword with both hands on occasion.
True Strike has always been Range: Personal.
I agree with mistwalker, specific exceptions preclude general statements.
+2